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Tolerance: Muslims Versus Jews

Started by josephpalazzo, October 18, 2015, 05:28:57 AM

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Mike Cl

Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 26, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
Well that's it, you haven't distinguished yourself... you're just another cat with a different fur color, but still a cat.
And we all know here that cats just can't be herded in one direction.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 26, 2015, 01:06:39 PM
And we all know here that cats just can't be herded in one direction.
No, but if you raise them yourself you can get a group of them to follow you like ducklings.

Source: have a couple of 4-year-olds I raised.
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Mike Cl

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on October 26, 2015, 01:13:43 PM
No, but if you raise them yourself you can get a group of them to follow you like ducklings.

Source: have a couple of 4-year-olds I raised.
I envy you.  I've not had the opportunity to raise a kitten.  But I do love cats; have had a couple of adult cats in my life and they were a joy.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 26, 2015, 01:06:39 PM
And we all know here that cats just can't be herded in one direction.

I apologize to all cats of this world. Initially, I wanted to use cockroach, should have gone with that...

Mike Cl

Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 26, 2015, 02:29:22 PM
I apologize to all cats of this world. Initially, I wanted to use cockroach, should have gone with that...
Well, what the hell.................can't herd those, either.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 26, 2015, 04:48:53 PM
Well, what the hell.................can't herd those, either.

Maybe not but I can shoo them in here:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Baruch

#411
Quote from: josephpalazzo on October 26, 2015, 02:29:22 PM
I apologize to all cats of this world. Initially, I wanted to use cockroach, should have gone with that...

To whomever - So you are liking characters out of that Jewish book by Franz Kafka ... Metamorphosis?  And here I didn't think you were an entomologist ;-)

Maybe you would prefer scorpions.  They are hardy .. can be frozen in a block of ice and survive .. be heated out of a block of ice with a blow torch and survive ... are you species-ist?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

aitm

A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Cocoa Beware

Quote from: drunkenshoe on October 23, 2015, 06:24:24 PM
Why would you even think that I thought that they were different than us? Or any human is. I haven't said or even implied anything of the sort. Is that even a fact anyone here would bother to present as an extra under normal circumstances? No. Why would it be tough? What does it have to do with it at all?

What does even "they were as bad as other humans" mean? What kind of a twisted bullshit logic is that?

I just reacted to normalising an unrecognised genocide that went on hundreds of years by saying 'they were equally vicious' (?) out of nowhere, because someone expressed an anachronistic thought, something like "it would be interesting to watch what would happen if Europans got drowned on the way and America wasn't even touched".

Nobody got drowned, they annihilated people and their culture. It already happened. If you are getting back to that with a bullshit statement of 'they were equally vicious and if you do not think that you are unrealistic and idealising natives" AND calling that these poeple being human as much the other 'a fact', you are trying to normalise genocide and miserably failing at it.

They had issues? What does this even mean? Is there a place or a country or a culture that doesn't/didn't have issues? Almost every soverign country is guilty of genocide. More, the criteria depends on political power, not what happens to people in reality.




My mistake, I thought you were talking about their respective natures.

I believe someone else mentioned they were inferior, but that just wasn't the case either.

There were something like 30 million people in Mexico when the Spaniards arrived, which is no meagre accomplishment. They had a green revolution before anyone else had a term for it, and made advances in engineering that were genuinely unique and ingenious.

The only reason Europeans were able to colonize the world is because of where Europe is situated. Advantageous in almost every way. Moderate climate, and good access to a variety of trade routes, which meant access to the latest technologies as well.

So sure, in a grander sense the Mesoamericans were basically like any other human in terms of temperament and intelligence.

Baruch

Quote from: Cocoa Beware on October 27, 2015, 10:40:06 PM
My mistake, I thought you were talking about their respective natures.

I believe someone else mentioned they were inferior, but that just wasn't the case either.

There were something like 30 million people in Mexico when the Spaniards arrived, which is no meagre accomplishment. They had a green revolution before anyone else had a term for it, and made advances in engineering that were genuinely unique and ingenious.

The only reason Europeans were able to colonize the world is because of where Europe is situated. Advantageous in almost every way. Moderate climate, and good access to a variety of trade routes, which meant access to the latest technologies as well.

So sure, in a grander sense the Mesoamericans were basically like any other human in terms of temperament and intelligence.

MesoAmericans before Columbus are a difficult people to get to know.  Reading positive fiction about them, in addition to facts ... helped me get over the strangeness.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

jonb

#415
Quote from: Cocoa Beware on October 27, 2015, 10:40:06 PM


The only reason Europeans were able to colonize the world is because of where Europe is situated. Advantageous in almost every way. Moderate climate, and good access to a variety of trade routes, which meant access to the latest technologies as well.


Or could an explanation be the Europeans did not have total state control with central state planning, but a strong sense of individuality?

China built a huge fleet which sailed from China to explore the world, it was so vast it carried ten thousand horsemen.

Columbus had three tiny boats.

It was easy for Columbus to bring back enough strange things to pay for the voyage, so the Europeans could repeat the experiment. Can you imagine how much the Chinese would have to bring back to make their voyage profitable? Unsurprisingly the Chinese never repeated their experiment.

It is therefore funny how our societies elites seem to be moving ever nearer to centralised state control and international planning as the way forward.   

Baruch

Quote from: jonb on October 27, 2015, 11:15:36 PM
Or could an explanation be the Europeans did not have total state control with central state planning, but a strong sense of individuality?

China built a huge fleet which sailed from China to explore the world, it was so vast it carried ten thousand horsemen.

Columbus had three tiny boats.

It was easy for Columbus to bring back enough strange things to pay for the voyage, so the Europeans could repeat the experiment. Can you imagine how much the Chinese would have to bring back to make their voyage profitable? Unsurprisingly the Chinese never repeated their experiment.

It is therefore funny how our societies elites seem to be moving ever nearer to centralised state control and international planning as the way forward.

Well we are drawing closer to China ... which is never the less Confucian.  I feel a greater need to read the messages in cookies, every day ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

aitm

Quote from: jonb on October 27, 2015, 11:15:36 PM


China built a huge fleet which sailed from China to explore the world, it was so vast it carried ten thousand horsemen.

Can you imagine how much the Chinese would have to bring back to make their voyage profitable? Unsurprisingly the Chinese never repeated their experiment.
 

In one of Boorstins books, I believe the "Discoverers"  he tells us that the Chinese had built the worlds largest wooden ships ever sailed, their armada was thousands of boats, but they did not go around conquering, their emperor, and I can't remember the name, believed that China was the center of the world and god/earth had given them everything they need and needed nothing else. He actually gave away gold and gems to other countries to show them how rich they were. When a time came that the emperor was told they were actually running out of wealth, he had his armada destroyed and China withdrew back into the confines of the country. Pick up all of Boorstins books, really really great reading: The Discoverers. The Creators, The Seekers... lots of fascinating stuff
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

jonb

The story is generally right, but I would say a little romanticised. The Chinese extracted tribute, and although getting to India and arabia did not think there would be worthwhile trade!

Incidentally the Admiral of the fleet was muslin or at least of a muslin family

Zheng He
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_voyages

The next Emperor outlawed sea going junks with two masts and foreign voyages. Central control has always been suspicious of the outside.

josephpalazzo

Quote from: Cocoa Beware on October 27, 2015, 10:40:06 PM

The only reason Europeans were able to colonize the world is because of where Europe is situated.

Unlikely. Before 1500 CE, Europe was behind China, India, and the Middle East. It was only with the advent of science, and the technological upshot, that Europe became the superpower of those days.