Spain: to ban religious classes from schools

[pr126]

mauricio wrote:

I would need more evidence to believe it.

The evidence is on the Internet if you look.
Whether you believe it is another matter.

Muslim Students' Association

The first MSA National chapter was formed in 1963 at the campus of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC) by international students.[3][4][5] The initial leadership came from Arabic-speaking and Urdu-speaking members,[5] with guidance from students of the Egyptian-based Muslim Brotherhood and Pakistan-based Jamaati Islami movements.[6][7] A Saudi Arabian charity, the Muslim World League, provided early funding for the group.[8] Early goals for the movement included the promotion of "a self-definition [that] involves initially and fundamentally [an] Islamic identity" of its members, as well as an appropriate Islamic lifestyle while they were in the US.[3]

Muslim Student Group a Gateway to Jihad?

WASHINGTON - The Muslim Students Association, or MSA, is one of the largest Islamic organizations in America, with chapters on hundreds of college campuses. It's alumni include doctors, lawyers and engineers.

But the group has another track record that it doesn't advertise: several of its leaders have been convicted of terrorism, prompting some terror experts to call the MSA a recruiting tool for jihad.

Although many Muslim and liberal groups complained about recent congressional hearings on homegrown Islamic radicalism, American-born Muslims are behind a growing number of terror plots -- a trend that Attorney General Eric Holder has said keeps him "up at night."

Many of these homegrown jihadists once belonged to the MSA, which has thousands of members on college campuses throughout the U.S. and Canada.

ISNA

The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) was established in July 1981 by U.S-based members of the Muslim Brotherhood who also had a background as leaders of the Muslim Students Association (MSA). As author and terrorism expert Steven Emerson puts it, ISNA “grew out of the Muslim Students Association, which ... was founded by Brotherhood members.” Indeed, Muslim Brothers would dominate ISNA's leadership throughout its early years, when the Society was highly dependent upon Saudi funding. ISNA's founding mission was “to advance the cause of Islam and serve Muslims in North America so as to enable them to adopt Islam as a complete way of life.”

* One of ISNA's key founders was one of Palestinian Islamic Jihad's founding students, Sami Al-Arian, who was directly involved with the Muslim Brotherhood in 1981, the year ISNA was established.

*Two other U.S. Muslim Brotherhood documents (from 1991 and 1992), however, indicated that the Brotherhood's influence over ISNA had declined somewhat in the late 1980s and early '90s. Nonetheless, ISNA was explicitly named in a May 1991 Muslim Brotherhood documentâ€"titled "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America"â€"as one of the Brotherhood’s 29 likeminded "organizations of our friends" that shared the common goal of destroying America and turning it into a Muslim nation. These "friends" were identified by the Brotherhood as groups that could help teach Muslims "that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions."

* In January 2009, ISNA president Ingrid Mattson was invited to speak at the National Prayer Service for the inauguration of the newly elected U.S. President, Barack Obama.

*   Alton Nolen, an Oklahoma man who in September 2014 beheaded his co-worker and attempted to behead another;
    U.S. Army psychiatrist Nidal Hasan, who in November 2009 went on a shooting rampage inside the Army post at Fort Hood, Texas -- killing 13 people and wounding at least 31 others;
    Tamerlan Anzorovich Tsarnaev and his brother Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, who planted bombs at the Boston Marathon on April 15, 2013, killing 3 people and injuring as many as 264 others;
    Abdurahman Alamoudi, ISNA's founder and first president, who in 2004 was sentenced to 23 years in prison for terrorism-related activities;
     Aafia Siddiqui, an MIT scientist-turned-al-Qaeda agent, who in 2010 was sentenced to 86 years in prison for his role in plotting a chemical attack in New York;
     Tarek Mehanna, who in 2012 was sentenced to 17 years in prison for conspiring to use automatic weapons to commit mass murder in a Massachusetts mall;
    Yusuf al-Qaradawi, an ISNA mosque trustee and an Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood leader who has issued numerous fatwas supporting Islamic extremism and denouncing Israel and the U.S.;
    Jamal Badawi, a former ISNA trustee who in 2007 was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a plan to funnel millions of dollars to Palestinian suicide bombers.

It is a long list, not many people prepared to read it all.

But hey, Obama likes them, so it can be bad.
Some of them are working in the administration.

[josephpalazzo]

I agree with this but rather than taking an authoritarian approach and banning the private religious schools I would simply not give them any state funding and would support the secular ones plus educate the people on secularism.

As I said before, such an approach leaves the door wide open for the rich to build their own school system. You're going to end up with a public school system for the poor and a private system for the rich. If you believe that inequality should be reduced, as I do, then the private system shouldn't be allowed.

Authoritarian? The state makes it obligatory to wear seat belts. Is that authoritarian? Perhaps but it's for your own good as studies show that number of  deaths in an accident is reduced with the obligatory seat belt.

[josephpalazzo]

@pr

I haven't found anything on the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party stand in regard to the teaching of Islam in the schools, but what I found out is that the socialist parties in Spain have worked against Islam in regard to women's issues. Considering that, it would be difficult to think that the Spanish Socialist Workers' Party would go easy on Islam. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on Spanish affairs could answer your post.

[Baruch]

As I said before, such an approach leaves the door wide open for the rich to build their own school system. You're going to end up with a public school system for the poor and a private system for the rich. If you believe that inequality should be reduced, as I do, then the private system shouldn't be allowed.

Authoritarian? The state makes it obligatory to wear seat belts. Is that authoritarian? Perhaps but it's for your own good as studies show that number of  deaths in an accident is reduced with the obligatory seat belt.

I am so glad you chose an innocuous example of government action.  But that doesn't mean the government, for example, can choose your religion for you ala Henry VIII and make you all go to his synagogue ;-)  Also if you haven't noticed for the last 200 years, the rich do have their own school system ... the elite boarding schools of New England plus Harvard and Yale ... are the American equivalent of the English system.  This is not, for example, what Jefferson recommended ... who wanted people of actual merit (what you mean, but yes I chide you anyway) to be even subsidized all the way thru grad school by the State, because such people are priceless (as compared to people like George W who got thru by preferment).  But as it developed, the public school system was always for the poor ... and particularly to assimilate the immigrant.  If one is an R, and hate immigrants ... then there is no need to promote mechanisms for assimilation ... so destroy the public schools ... besides illiterate peasants fit the castle/church system so much better.

[Baruch]

what exactly do you find laughable? the idea of this specific organization being involved with islamist groups or that universities in the USA or other first world countries would be recruitment grounds for islamists groups? Cause the later is a concerning and a factual thing. Now this particular group PR is talking about I don't know, but I do now that islamist groups have created communties that spread propaganda and recruit people in universities in England and I also know that universities can become recruitment grounds for other dangerous ideologies like what happened with maoist communism in Peru that created the terrorist group the shining path. Charismatic intellectuals are usually leaders and recruiters in dangerous organizations. So I would not be very surprised if what PR is saying is true, thought I would need more evidence to believe this specific organization is involved.

Any place like minded people gather, is a recruiting ground.  Where Muslims gather, here or there, it is a recruiting ground.  But if a university is a disturbing recruiting ground ala 1960s one can simply not do what was done then ... start a war, close the universities and draft all the students into the military (sorry girls, this time you are joining us in the rice paddies ... isn't feminism great?).  And yes, one can in a Draconian move, simply expel all Muslims from your territory.  But that didn't work with the Romans, Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Normans etc ... the old and the new simply found new, non-violent ways of living together ... but first the rapine and slaughter!

[josephpalazzo]

I am so glad you chose an innocuous example of government action.  But that doesn't mean the government, for example, can choose your religion for you ala Henry VIII and make you all go to his synagogue ;-)  Also if you haven't noticed for the last 200 years, the rich do have their own school system ... the elite boarding schools of New England plus Harvard and Yale ... are the American equivalent of the English system.  This is not, for example, what Jefferson recommended ... who wanted people of actual merit (what you mean, but yes I chide you anyway) to be even subsidized all the way thru grad school by the State, because such people are priceless (as compared to people like George W who got thru by preferment).  But as it developed, the public school system was always for the poor ... and particularly to assimilate the immigrant.  If one is an R, and hate immigrants ... then there is no need to promote mechanisms for assimilation ... so destroy the public schools ... besides illiterate peasants fit the castle/church system so much better.

Remember I'm also for a secular government. In that case, such a government would not advocate the teaching of religion in the public school. If there are no private schools, which is my position, then the rich kid has to sit next to the poor kid in class. What better way than to go beyond all class distinction in early age development!