Morality without religion

[GrimTalo]

I am attempting to gain information regarding morality without religion. I am reaching out for help from the community, as this is the first resource I considered as a valid source for this topic.  I understand that there is morality without a god, but how does one teach this? When you look at religions, there are not arguments for morality. It is simply, do it or burn. If you have suggestions for books, recorded arguments, text, blogs, or anything that would help teach someone morality.  Thank you for your time and assistance.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

http://www.amazon.com/Good-Without-God-Billion-Nonreligious/dp/006167012X

[Gawdzilla Sama]

A thought about "morality comes from God". If this is true then how are other people moral? People who don't believe in the god or gods being claimed as the source for morality must "get morality from somewhere." So, could it be that everybody's god or gods are real and provide morality? Or is it that the morality source is outside the religious realm entirely?

We see chimps being "moral", do they have gods?

[stromboli]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_morality

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/cohen02.htm

http://www.debate.org/opinions/morals-can-exist-without-religion

[GrimTalo]

A thought about "morality comes from God". If this is true then how are other people moral? People who don't believe in the god or gods being claimed as the source for morality must "get morality from somewhere." So, could it be that everybody's god or gods are real and provide morality? Or is it that the morality source is outside the religious realm entirely?

We see chimps being "moral", do they have gods?

I believe you learn morality without religion thru example and social consequence. Everything comes back to the golden rule, do unto others.... The issues that I want to address need to be explained. There are many teaching examples of salesmanship were you network and make friends with people because there is a gain to be had. I believe the same can be applied to morals. There is a simple carrot and stick approch you can take. If you fight, people will fight back. If you kill, you will be branded a killer and outcast from society. If you are kind, you will recieve kindness. Much of the material I have read so far, is simply "I can be moraly correct, I don't need some one to tell me not to eat babies to know it is wrong."  The problem with this, is that it still falls into: "I don't know why I do the things I do, or believe the things I believe, I just do." I want to explain why we do the things we do, because I believe this is what is missing from a lot of arguments. I am simply finding these bits of information, far and few between. I will post my results if I find anything useful.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The study of morality among chimps is online,  you might find it useful, or at least the references list.

[CrucifyCindy]

Truthfully I really don't get why atheists and religious people make such a big deal about morality. I mean morality can be useful but there are times when you just need to push it aside because it will get in your way. But I notice the only people who are mostly concerned with morality are atheists and monotheists.

Like Sholem Alechem said only two people in his village took God seriously...the village rabbi and the village atheist and they both took turns playing the village idiot.

[Baruch]

My line is ... development of a conscience.  A conscience is a behavior regulator where we have internalized a rule and made it unconscious.  What you feed into it, by association or deliberation, is what you get.  Programming.  But what to put in?  A positive personality will realize that not all activities are conducive to personal survival and enhancement.  Only ponder and internalize positive activities.  And an empathic person will realize that the difference between "self" and "other" needs to be transcended ... that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  With that kind of psychological equipment, one will intuit unethical situations and avoid them, and intuit ethical situations and be drawn to them.

BTW - this is in the parlance, that ethics is universal, but that morality is specific to the context of religion.  To me morality implies ... do this, or don't do that ... just because some authority (often religion) says so.  In the case of government, the term "legality" is used.

Jewish life is based on prayer ... in the context that prayer is directed to oneself primarily, requesting G-d's help, and primarily for repentance.  Repentance is about not forgetting to be ethical, and having remembered, to put it into action.  Having prayed and repented, one is now psychologically ready to do some good deed (as per conscientious and empathetic context) ... one good deed being to pray again, to build up one's conscience, to develop one's empathy, closing the cycle.  This practice gets better the more one does it, positive feedback.  So it is a practice ... being good or doing good doesn't happen on its own, but there are ways to gain it.  But being applied psychology, one could do this without G-d or prayer ... and see it as a power of deliberate positive thinking.  In our lives, we are exposed to much negativity, which pulls us away from being good or doing good.

[josephpalazzo]

I wonder why people confuse morality and ethics. And the two have always existed, with or without religion. It just happened that religion hijacked both of them.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I wonder why people confuse morality and ethics. And the two have always existed, with or without religion. It just happened that religion hijacked both of them.

And they have neither.

[GrimTalo]

I wonder why people confuse morality and ethics. And the two have always existed, with or without religion. It just happened that religion hijacked both of them.

My understanding is that Ethics are external rules that we live by, Morals are internal rules that we live by.  Morals are stronger than Ethics when making a choice, so I am going with that. Core values is the ideal target when addressing change. 

Update: I haven't found the "why" yet. I am beginning to think this is an actual problem. This comes during a time when the masses need some moral fiber in their diet. I strongly believe that removing programs that promote nationalism and character building will be the downfall of the US.

[jonb]

2 days research bli'me that was quick, can we guess what is going to come next folks.



I can hardly wait,

[Sal1981]

A thought about "morality comes from God". If this is true then how are other people moral? People who don't believe in the god or gods being claimed as the source for morality must "get morality from somewhere." So, could it be that everybody's god or gods are real and provide morality? Or is it that the morality source is outside the religious realm entirely?

We see chimps being "moral", do they have gods?

Yes, Marimbo.

[Mike Cl]

My understanding is that Ethics are external rules that we live by, Morals are internal rules that we live by.  Morals are stronger than Ethics when making a choice, so I am going with that. Core values is the ideal target when addressing change. 

Update: I haven't found the "why" yet. I am beginning to think this is an actual problem. This comes during a time when the masses need some moral fiber in their diet. I strongly believe that removing programs that promote nationalism and character building will be the downfall of the US.

Maybe the 'why' could be as simple as what works for the group as a whole.  Why is it not acceptable to abuse children?  For biological and social reasons.  We, are driven as a species to protect our young.  And our society deems it to be the right thing to do--protect children.  That's the why.  And all other 'morals' are determined in a like manner.  And they can change over time.  I agree that ethics are what should be and morals are what is. 

Why is now a time when the masses need some moral fiber in their diet?  Or, why is now any different in any other time?  And I see programs that promote nationalism as leading to fascism.  Which is where the conservatives and christians are trying to take us.  I see fascism as being bad--and I see us using terms such as 'The Homeland' as fascist.  Homeland Security is a hallmark of a fascist movement. 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yes, Marimbo.

Pardon?