Halloween Demonstrates Dichotomy of Conservatism

[TomFoolery]

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/parents-fight-back-over-schools-halloween-ban-193614644.html

I love how Halloween is the holiday that creates so much fundamental chaos and seems to lob people onto sides of the political spectrum they don't frequently visit.

There are conservative Christians who want it banned because it's a pagan holiday (yes, I know, all Christian holidays are pagan in nature and the irony isn't beyond me). If it's not banned on pagan origins, then they want it banned because it's a holiday that isn't about Jesus.

Then there are the groups that want it banned because it's a Christian holiday and schools shouldn't be celebrating any religion in any way. We wouldn't want students of other religious backgrounds Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or atheists to feel excluded by a holiday that not everyone observes, would we?

Then it seems like many Conservatives who want to keep it around because it's "tradition" and you can't go around shitting on tradition. This is America! If it's a holiday Muslims don't celebrate, let's fucking celebrate it even if it's against Jesus.

I've never been big into celebrating Halloween personally, but we did things in school and passed out candy. I was never allowed to wear a costume to school because even back in the 1990s school officials cited dress code reasons, which I get. Nowadays safety is also probably a concern (whether real or imagined) because since school shootings happen practically every day, is it smart to let your students walk around with masks on?

It seems to me as though Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world. We took a pagan holiday, reinvented it in the image of commercialism to sell shitty costumes to people that were probably made by overseas slave labor, then the religious started to pick it apart, then political correctness stepped in and had to have its two cents, then the safety brigade clutched its pearls over fears of school shootings and peanut allergies, and now no one can have any fucking fun because it's both somehow unAmerican, too American, anti-religious, too religious, anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, unsafe, unfair, and unclean. We are also required to worry that not celebrating it will rob children of their childhoods, their innocence, their imaginations, their first amendment right to dress up like Spiderman and the American way of life in general while also worrying that it enhances a culture that causes body image issues, obesity, and tooth decay (what's up Dr. Peterman, DDS?!)

[Mike Cl]

https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/parents-fight-back-over-schools-halloween-ban-193614644.html

I love how Halloween is the holiday that creates so much fundamental chaos and seems to lob people onto sides of the political spectrum they don't frequently visit.

There are conservative Christians who want it banned because it's a pagan holiday (yes, I know, all Christian holidays are pagan in nature and the irony isn't beyond me). If it's not banned on pagan origins, then they want it banned because it's a holiday that isn't about Jesus.

Then there are the groups that want it banned because it's a Christian holiday and schools shouldn't be celebrating any religion in any way. We wouldn't want students of other religious backgrounds Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or atheists to feel excluded by a holiday that not everyone observes, would we?

Then it seems like many Conservatives who want to keep it around because it's "tradition" and you can't go around shitting on tradition. This is America! If it's a holiday Muslims don't celebrate, let's fucking celebrate it even if it's against Jesus.

I've never been big into celebrating Halloween personally, but we did things in school and passed out candy. I was never allowed to wear a costume to school because even back in the 1990s school officials cited dress code reasons, which I get. Nowadays safety is also probably a concern (whether real or imagined) because since school shootings happen practically every day, is it smart to let your students walk around with masks on?

It seems to me as though Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world. We took a pagan holiday, reinvented it in the image of commercialism to sell shitty costumes to people that were probably made by overseas slave labor, then the religious started to pick it apart, then political correctness stepped in and had to have its two cents, then the safety brigade clutched its pearls over fears of school shootings and peanut allergies, and now no one can have any fucking fun because it's both somehow unAmerican, too American, anti-religious, too religious, anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, unsafe, unfair, and unclean. We are also required to worry that not celebrating it will rob children of their childhoods, their innocence, their imaginations, their first amendment right to dress up like Spiderman and the American way of life in general while also worrying that it enhances a culture that causes body image issues, obesity, and tooth decay (what's up Dr. Peterman, DDS?!)

You forgot the needle in the apple terrors. 

[TomFoolery]

You forgot the needle in the apple terrors.

I thought it was razors in apples?

I was even informed yesterday that I'm not supposed to give out candy with nuts or gluten. Sorry, but if someone comes to my house and begs for candy with the socially mandated incantation "trick or treat", they're getting whatever the fuck I give them. If they're allergic, they should pick it out. If the kid is too young to know they're allergic to it, they should be with their parents and they should pick it out for them.

I sort of agree with the idea that school is school and kids should go there to learn but really, the fight to appease everyone just always ends up making everything boring.

[Hydra009]

There are conservative Christians who want it banned because it's a pagan holiday (yes, I know, all Christian holidays are pagan in nature and the irony isn't beyond me). If it's not banned on pagan origins, then they want it banned because it's a holiday that isn't about Jesus.

I think some of it is that they really believe in demons and evil spirits and don't want their kids to be associated with that.  In essence, Halloween isn't playful fun to them, it's real.  It's not unlike the Christians who don't want their kids to read Harry Potter because it has witchcraft in it and they believe that witchcraft is real.  They apparently don't understand that this stuff is fictional and harmless entertainment.

Then there are the groups that want it banned because it's a Christian holiday and schools shouldn't be celebrating any religion in any way. We wouldn't want students of other religious backgrounds Muslims, Orthodox Jews, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or atheists to feel excluded by a holiday that not everyone observes, would we?

And that's the even dumber perspective.  1)  It's not a Christian holiday.  2) There are lots of holidays and not everyone observes all of them, and that's fine.  Everyone can and should do their own thing.  I mean, it doesn't bother me when other people celebrate holidays that I don't celebrate.  And I certainly don't try to put a stop to their festivities in response.  WTF is wrong with these people?

Then it seems like many Conservatives who want to keep it around because it's "tradition" and you can't go around shitting on tradition.

It's actually very recent tradition.  While its pagan roots go back centuries, the secular, costumed, trick-or-treet holiday that we're familiar with is less than 100 years old.

I've never been big into celebrating Halloween personally, but we did things in school and passed out candy.

Heretic.  Halloween is the best holiday ever!  A celebration of horror and the macabre (typically a taboo subject) paired with creative costuming/decoration and prodigious candy consumption.  It's the best!

I was never allowed to wear a costume to school because even back in the 1990s school officials cited dress code reasons, which I get. Nowadays safety is also probably a concern (whether real or imagined) because since school shootings happen practically every day, is it smart to let your students walk around with masks on?

Masks are okay except where prohibited (like inside a store).  Kids are often escorted by adults now, though I remember when that was rarely the case.  Imho, the safety issues with Halloween are often exaggerated.  People nowadays are overprotective.

[TomFoolery]

Masks are okay except where prohibited (like inside a store).  Kids are often escorted by adults now, though I remember when that was rarely the case.  Imho, the safety issues with Halloween are often exaggerated.  People nowadays are overprotective.

I went trick-or-treating up until I was 11, and I don't think my parents ever went with me. When I was littler I had my older cousins, and as I got older myself, I was put in charge of other, younger kids. We roamed in packs. Now parents have gotten arrested and had their kids taken away just for letting them walk to the park by themselves. The safety brigade and the political correctness council have really coalesced into a force to make me tremble over Halloween.

Like, we are forced to wonder if selling sexy versions of costumes from Sexy Badger to Sexy Newt Gingrich overly sexualizes young girls while somehow simultaneously not allowing them to "express themselves." There are the boy costumes versus girl costumes debates, the fears over child abductions, the fears about over sheltering the kids. It's enough to make me wonder if I'm supposed to be afraid, offended, or delighted if a group of kids shows up on my doorstep in gender bending costumes with no parents. Do I call the police and report child neglect, give them a lecture on gender roles, or give them candy? Does the candy have to be peanut and gluten free? Are kids even supposed to say "trick or treat" anymore? I just... don't know.

[Hydra009]

There are the boy costumes versus girl costumes debates, the fears over child abductions, the fears about over sheltering the kids. It's enough to make me wonder if I'm supposed to be afraid, offended, or delighted if a group of kids shows up on my doorstep in gender bending costumes with no parents. Do I call the police and report child neglect, give them a lecture on gender roles, or give them candy? Does the candy have to be peanut and gluten free? Are kids even supposed to say "trick or treat" anymore? I just... don't know.

Leave it to the talking heads to make a simple holiday so complex.  We can't simply have a fun time, we have to worry about everything.

And yes, the phrase "trick or treat" is mandatory, and - don't quote me on this - you're legally obligated to play a trick if no treat is forthcoming.

[GSOgymrat]

"Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world."

If Halloween is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[Mike Cl]

I thought it was razors in apples?

I was even informed yesterday that I'm not supposed to give out candy with nuts or gluten. Sorry, but if someone comes to my house and begs for candy with the socially mandated incantation "trick or treat", they're getting whatever the fuck I give them. If they're allergic, they should pick it out. If the kid is too young to know they're allergic to it, they should be with their parents and they should pick it out for them.

I sort of agree with the idea that school is school and kids should go there to learn but really, the fight to appease everyone just always ends up making everything boring.

Yeah, I forgot about the razors.  Both came in apples.  That is christian, right?  The apple brought us down. :)

I solved the Halloween pain-in-the-ass night.  We simply drawn the curtains, turn out all the lights and let the dogs bark at the sweet little children walking by.  Don't answer the doorbell.  I play my computer until bed time and then go to sleep.  Yeah, I know, I'm the Grinch of Halloween.  And I liked the last Grinch christmas movie--except it should have ended twenty min. earlier than it did--you know, with all the toys up the mountain and in the cave.

[Hydra009]

Guys, the poisoned/razored Halloween candy thing is more myth than fact.  From the way people talk, you'd think it was a common occurrence.  It's not.  It's not even rare.  We're talking fewer than 90 cases of actual tampering compared to the massive numbers of people who have never had any problem year after year.  And that was before candies were commonly individually packaged.  It's even less of a worry nowadays.  Stop repeating the razor blades in apples thing, it's bunk.

[Mike Cl]

Guys, the poisoned/razored Halloween candy thing is more myth than fact.  From the way people talk, you'd think it was a common occurrence.  It's not.  It's not even rare.  We're talking fewer than 90 cases of actual tampering compared to the massive numbers of people who have never had any problem year after year.  And that was before candies were commonly individually packaged.  It's even less of a worry nowadays.  Stop repeating the razor blades in apples thing, it's bunk.

Yeah, I know it's fiction.  In the same area of being real is the story of Satan worshipers everywhere.  Just isn't so.

[drunkenshoe]

I even requested an American invasion to get Halloween, but no luck, alas! They informed me that there is not enough profit in it.  

[TomFoolery]

Guys, the poisoned/razored Halloween candy thing is more myth than fact.  From the way people talk, you'd think it was a common occurrence.  It's not.  It's not even rare.  We're talking fewer than 90 cases of actual tampering compared to the massive numbers of people who have never had any problem year after year.  And that was before candies were commonly individually packaged.  It's even less of a worry nowadays.  Stop repeating the razor blades in apples thing, it's bunk.

I know. I assumed Mike was joking, and I was joking with him. In fact, I think the discrepancy between needles and razors illustrates what happens when urban legends change over the years.

When it comes to apples anyway, there actually has never been any single documented case of razors.

[Atheon]

When I was growing up, it was never a day off school (unless of course it fell on a weekend), and I never got the day off work either. It;s not an officially observed holiday; it's more of a folk holiday. You can't ban it any more than you can ban Tuesday. October 31 IS Halloween.

As for razor blades in candy, when I was a kid the fear was razor blades in apples.

[josephpalazzo]

It seems to me as though Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world. We took a pagan holiday, reinvented it in the image of commercialism to sell shitty costumes to people that were probably made by overseas slave labor, then the religious started to pick it apart, then political correctness stepped in and had to have its two cents, then the safety brigade clutched its pearls over fears of school shootings and peanut allergies, and now no one can have any fucking fun because it's both somehow unAmerican, too American, anti-religious, too religious, anti-Muslim, anti-atheist, unsafe, unfair, and unclean. We are also required to worry that not celebrating it will rob children of their childhoods, their innocence, their imaginations, their first amendment right to dress up like Spiderman and the American way of life in general while also worrying that it enhances a culture that causes body image issues, obesity, and tooth decay (what's up Dr. Peterman, DDS?!)

I'm not sure that " Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world"'. That so many people can voice their opinion on whether to celebrate or not is a mark of its strength, not what's wrong.  It still remains that you're free to celebrate or not. 

[TomFoolery]

I'm not sure that " Halloween is just the most perfect example of what's wrong with the Western world"'. That so many people can voice their opinion on whether to celebrate or not is a mark of its strength, not what's wrong.  It still remains that you're free to celebrate or not.

No, I was trying to point out that what's wrong with it is that somehow no one really seems to question why a holiday can be both the embodiment and antithesis of so many things at once.