Muslim Leaders 'Expose ISIS' Lies’ In Digital Magazine

[josephpalazzo]

Islam has made Europe its bitch before.  Though not without opposition.  Maybe if it happens again, y'all can take your obsessions off of the poor Russians.

China would never allow that to happen.

[Baruch]

China would never allow that to happen.

Seems Russia, with its Syrian, Hezbollah and Iranian allies, won't allow that to happen.

[josephpalazzo]

Seems Russia, with its Syrian, Hezbollah and Iranian allies, won't allow that to happen.

If I had those countries as allies, I wouldn't take the trouble to even mention them.

[Baruch]

If I had those countries as allies, I wouldn't take the trouble to even mention them.

Worked fine in WW II ... Soviet Union and China were on the Allied side.  Allies aren't about who you like, but who is willing to help you kill your enemies.

[SilentFutility]

And if you think that is Islam you are, frankly, deluded.

If we are going by just flat out kill count, Islam still has a long way to go in the last 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 years to various Western and Chinese ideologies. Same with oppression of minorities.

Something may or may not have been a big threat 10 years ago, that something does not stop something else being a threat right now.

10 years is a long time and a lot can happen in it.

If we're going by kill counts in the last 80 years the Germans would be pretty high on the old kill count meter. Are you suggesting that by this logic they're one of the biggest current, present-day threats to world peace? You're calling me deluded but then turning around and saying that because people killed people in WW2 they're a threat to world peace? Also, I resent being called deluded for thinking differently to you.

Go on then, as I'm so clearly deluded it should be very obvious which ideology is more dangerous than the one that has a book condoning various acts of horrific violence that is worshipped by nearly 1/4 of the world's population, a proportion which I might add is rapidly increasing? Christianity? Nope, not as violent, new testament supersedes the old and their proportion of the world's population is in rapid decline. Buddhists? Fringe far right groups with ten members?

Maybe you might disagree with which group is the most dangerous, and it is all subjective so we could argue over it forever essentially, but to call me deluded when that's how the numbers stack up is a bit off isn't it?

[Shiranu]

Go on then, as I'm so clearly deluded it should be very obvious which ideology is more dangerous than the one that has a book condoning various acts of horrific violence that is worshipped by nearly 1/4 of the world's population, a proportion which I might add is rapidly increasing? Christianity? Nope, not as violent, new testament supersedes the old and their proportion of the world's population is in rapid decline. Buddhists? Fringe far right groups with ten members?

The oligarchical political system of several of the world's most powerful nations is one very obvious ideology. So is several of the neo-right wing groups that have an actual chance of controlling nations that dominate the global economy and largest militaries in the world. Rampant consumerism that devalues human life in the "other, far away lands". Warhawks who have lead us into campaigns that have murdered and displaced millions in the Middle East.

Those are just a few.

Something may or may not have been a big threat 10 years ago, that something does not stop something else being a threat right now.

That's not what I said. The last ten years means now to last ten. Last 20 now to last 20. Etc. Etc.

Maybe you might disagree with which group is the most dangerous, and it is all subjective so we could argue over it forever essentially, but to call me deluded when that's how the numbers stack up is a bit off isn't it?

The numbers don't stack up in your favour though, so that belief IS in fact deluded.

[josephpalazzo]

Worked fine in WW II ... Soviet Union and China were on the Allied side.

You're talking on different scales now: Russia, with its Syrian, Hezbollah and Iranian allies compared with WW2 allied countries with China and Soviet Union.

Allies aren't about who you like, but who is willing to help you kill your enemies.

Agree.

[SilentFutility]

The oligarchical political system of several of the world's most powerful nations is one very obvious ideology. (citation needed) So is several of the neo-right wing groups that have an actual chance of controlling nations (citation needed) that dominate the global economy (citation needed) and largest militaries in the world. Rampant consumerism that devalues human life in the "other, far away lands" (citation needed). Warhawks who have lead us into campaigns that have murdered and displaced millions in the Middle East.

Those are just a few.

The numbers don't stack up in your favour though, so that belief IS in fact deluded.

You haven't given me any numbers to stack up against other than abstractedly mentioning kill count. Also, who has killed the most in the past is not necessarily the largest threat. I do absolutely agree that decades of foreign intervention by the UK and USA have fucked up a lot of places and have planted the seeds that grew into hatred of the west in many cases.

You didn't call my belief deluded, you called me deluded, don't backpedal. Take it back or stand by it.

[Shiranu]

You haven't given me any numbers to stack up against other than abstractedly mentioning kill count.

Nor have you, and if you really think I need to cite for you that the American, Russian, Chinese militaries and economies are the most powerful in the world then I am not entirely sure there is any point in continuing. Next I'll likely have to site that the sky is blue and water is wet. Frankly, not interested.

You didn't call my belief deluded, you called me deluded, don't backpedal. Take it back or stand by it.

If your belief is deluded, you are inherently deluded and vice versa. So there is nothing to take back. The only thing left is to add; it's really disappointing to see someone I respected as a poster being consistently standoffish, extremely hypocritical with the standards he holds friend and foe to and whom plays so intentionally dense and moronic as a way of arguing.

It's one thing to see that from people who have been jackasses the whole time, I expect it from them. I don't particularly expect it from people who use to contribute things of value.

[Baruch]

Nor have you, and if you really think I need to cite for you that the American, Russian, Chinese militaries and economies are the most powerful in the world then I am not entirely sure there is any point in continuing. Next I'll likely have to site that the sky is blue and water is wet. Frankly, not interested.

If your belief is deluded, you are inherently deluded and vice versa. So there is nothing to take back. The only thing left is to add; it's really disappointing to see someone I respected as a poster being consistently standoffish, extremely hypocritical with the standards he holds friend and foe to and whom plays so intentionally dense and moronic as a way of arguing.

It's one thing to see that from people who have been jackasses the whole time, I expect it from them. I don't particularly expect it from people who use to contribute things of value.

Perhaps we never real know someone, until we have seen their Internet posts.  And those aren't clinically indicative except on topics they feel passionate about (I'm talking about you ... Bronies).

[SilentFutility]

Nor have you, and if you really think I need to cite for you that the American, Russian, Chinese militaries and economies are the most powerful in the world then I am not entirely sure there is any point in continuing. Next I'll likely have to site that the sky is blue and water is wet. Frankly, not interested.

If your belief is deluded, you are inherently deluded and vice versa. So there is nothing to take back. The only thing left is to add; it's really disappointing to see someone I respected as a poster being consistently standoffish, extremely hypocritical with the standards he holds friend and foe to and whom plays so intentionally dense and moronic as a way of arguing.

It's one thing to see that from people who have been jackasses the whole time, I expect it from them. I don't particularly expect it from people who use to contribute things of value.

Just because someone is the most powerful doesn't mean that they have the most intent to do harm. You're not interested because you're only interested in telling everyone what you think and having them all agree with you.

Yet again, more insults etc. I'm now also playing stupid and moronic as well as being deluded because you don't agree with me. Also disagreeing with you isn't hypocritical. I just disagree.

Finally, with regard to numbers, I said only this:

the one that has a book condoning various acts of horrific violence that is worshipped by nearly 1/4 of the world's population, a proportion which I might add is rapidly increasing?

Then you asserted that the numbers don't stack up, and then you didn't provide any numbers.


If disagreeing with you on a forum where people debate, share ideas and discuss things is standoffish (when you're the one throwing insults around I might add), then it is you who is being hypocritical.


You are clearly not interested in debating this subject, only dictating your opinion and insulting and discrediting anyone who disagrees. I make no apologies for "disappointing you" by daring to have a different opinion to you that doesn't falter in the wake of your insults and lack of actual rebuttal.

[Baruch]

Nations with greater power, bear greater responsibility for the results ... including Japan (third largest economy, greater than Russia's).  But people love to split authority from responsibility ... the powerful love to enhance their authority, and let the little people bear all the responsibility ;-(  We should focus on that and not petty concerns.

[josephpalazzo]

Nations with greater power, bear greater responsibility for the results ... including Japan (third largest economy, greater than Russia's).  But people love to split authority from responsibility ... the powerful love to enhance their authority, and let the little people bear all the responsibility ;-(  We should focus on that and not petty concerns.

That is a bit an over exaggeration, don't you think? All societies can be shown to break down into an upper, middle and lower class - and sometimes subdivisions within these. And each class bears its share of authority/responsibility, not necessarily in equal amount. A society that ensures mobility between the classes is preferable to one that doesn't, from my POV. And I don't see any particular reason why we should focus on the little people - they get no special attention, maybe some individuals if they so merit.

[Baruch]

That is a bit an over exaggeration, don't you think? All societies can be shown to break down into an upper, middle and lower class - and sometimes subdivisions within these. And each class bears its share of authority/responsibility, not necessarily in equal amount. A society that ensures mobility between the classes is preferable to one that doesn't, from my POV. And I don't see any particular reason why we should focus on the little people - they get no special attention, maybe some individuals if they so merit.

Yes, life is just grand, if you have nubile nude females dropping grapes into your waiting mouth.  Are you a follower of Ayn Rand?  I followed her in my youth, but not much since.  The "great man" theory of reality is very much her POV.  My POV is that some people are assholes, or maybe all of us are.  I don't care what accomplishments the monkeys think they have done.

[Shiranu]

Just because someone is the most powerful doesn't mean that they have the most intent to do harm. You're not interested because you're only interested in telling everyone what you think and having them all agree with you.

What relevance is intent? If I hurt you because I don't like you, or if I hurt you to further my agenda and you got in the way... tell me how much it will matter to the person who was hurt.

I am not interested in intent because it is irrelevant, not because I want people to agree with me. If I wanted people to constantly agree with me, I sure as fuck wouldn't spend my time here.

Yet again, more insults etc. I'm now also playing stupid and moronic as well as being deluded because you don't agree with me.

Uh, no, you are playing stupid and moronic because you are asking for citation that the major nations economies and militaries are the most powerful in the world. There is no way to not say that in an "insulting" manner, because by it's very nature one should be insulted if called on that. The truth is under no obligation to be non-insulting, nice as that would be.

Also disagreeing with you isn't hypocritical. I just disagree.

Not what I said. You do not hold people you agree with to the same standards of citations on articles that are very, very questionable at best as you do "the other side". You do not hold people remotely to the same level of, "I remember when this forum was more than ad homs". You are a hypocrite in your social circles, not in your argument.

And if I am being hypocritical about something, by all means call me on it. That's not an insult, that's a statement of "get your shit together". I have not found any of the insults thrown at me by you or several others insulting, but from you I do find them disappointing.

the one that has a book condoning various acts of horrific violence that is worshipped by nearly 1/4 of the world's population, a proportion which I might add is rapidly increasing?

Several ways to address this...

1. That number is closer to 50%, since the Bible and Qu'ran both statistically are comparable in terms of violence per percentage... the Bible at nearly 3% of it is violent verses, the Qu'ran at 5%.

If we are going to hold the two as "violent" books because of 2.7% and 5% percentage has violent verses, then are we going to ignore the verses that promote peace and "right" living? Since we love to only quote the bad, let's get some of the good in here for once... lest we be cherry pickers ourselves.

The Prophet Muhammad (s) said: “Do not turn away a poor man…even if all you can give is half a date. If you love the poor and bring them near you…God will bring you near Him on the Day of Resurrection.”
â€"â€"â€" Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1376

The Prophet Muhammad (s) said: ““It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing.”
â€"â€"â€" Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1011.

The Prophet Muhammad (s) said: “Indeed, an ignorant man who is generous is dearer to God than a worshipper who is miserly.”
â€"â€"â€" Al-Tirmidhi: Hadith 580.

The Prophet Muhammad (s) said: “Anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should not harm his neighbor, and anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously, and anybody who believes in Allah and the Last Day should talk what is good or keep quiet (i.e. abstain from all kinds of evil and dirty talk).”
â€"â€"â€" Narrated by Abu Hurayrah, Sahih Al Bukhari, Vol: 8 Hadith 47.

“Do not be people without minds of your own, saying that if others treat you well you will treat them well and that if they do wrong you will do wrong. But (instead) accustom yourselves to do good if people do good and not to do wrong if they do evil.”
â€"â€"â€" Prophet Muhammad (s) as reported in Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1325.

Truly, a book of true, unadulterated, unfathomable and unopposed evil.


Argument 2. - Take a look at where your shirt is made. Take a look at where the parts on your computer were made. Take a look where nearly every single product you own, every piece of food you eat, was made or grown. Now think about the living standards of the people who made it. We employee millions upon millions of slaves in everything but name in Latin America, Africa, Asia (and for food, at least here in the States, Hispanic slave labour in the fields). Does Islam hold a candle to how many people are suffering not for anything like a religion, but rather just plain, basic greed and indifference of the post-colonial West?

China and India are the two largest countries and growing fast... think about the standards of living in those countries. 36% of the world's population lives in those two countries alone, and the living standards for many, especially in India, are comparable to anywhere in the Middle East.  These countries also wield geo-political power far beyond anyone in the Middle East does, the closest likely being Saudi Arabia and Iran who, while players, are not super powers like these two.

You are clearly not interested in debating this subject, only dictating your opinion and insulting and discrediting anyone who disagrees.

You first claim I am not interested in debating, then claim I am only interested in discrediting... what point is there debating if you do not intend to try and prove the other belief wrong. If I had no intention of trying to discredit, my only option would be to say, "You are 100% right" and then there would be no debate.

I make no apologies for "disappointing you" by daring to have a different opinion to you that doesn't falter in the wake of your insults and lack of actual rebuttal.

Again, your opinion has fuck all to do with why you are disappointing. It is your behaviour that is a let down, but then again I should have expected as much given the turn several posters have taken in the last year or so.

Edit: Sorry, missed a part...

If disagreeing with you on a forum where people debate, share ideas and discuss things is standoffish (when you're the one throwing insults around I might add), then it is you who is being hypocritical.

1. It's not the disagreement.

2. Would you say sharing the ideas about creationism is still just, "sharing ideas"? So why is factually bunk articles posted about Islam with a strong xenophobic ideological motivation considered "sharing ideas" instead of posting bullshit.

3. I'll give you the standoffish, though it has gotten worse thanks to a slew of ad homs. and deeply personal attacks by several posters that went unremarked upon by anyone. Still giving you that one though.