Muslim Leaders 'Expose ISIS' Lies’ In Digital Magazine

[mauricio]

Any so-called "Moderate Muslims" will not be able to wrest control of the islamic agenda for several reasons. First of all, Mohammed, the Messenger of Allah’s eternal word, was not moderate. No so-called "Moderate Muslim" can legitimately tell another Muslim to stop doing the very things Mohammed himself did. The Qur’an not only condones but commands violence and coercion to further the Islamic agenda. People whom some call "Moderate Muslims" are labeled hypocrites by Allah Himself in the Qur’an. Any so-called "Moderate Muslims" will always lose the argument because, as ex-Muslim author Ibn Warraq says, “There may be "moderates" in Islam but Islam itself is not at all moderate.”

This is truth to a certain extend but look at christianity now a days, ultimately doctrine will be reshaped when the ethics of the believers evolve and their governments become more secular, which did actually kind of happen with the Ba'athism ideology,though this ideology was applied brutally with iron fist by dictators which had the opposite effect and caused radicalization. The best we can do for now is support Islam reformists and accelerate this evolution.

[pr126]

 

We are getting nowhere fast. You believe what you want to believe.

[pr126]

mauricio wrote:

The best we can do for now is support Islam reformists and accelerate this evolution.

And how soon do you expect this to happen?

BTW, who is doing the supporting and how can it be done?

[Shiranu]

We are getting nowhere fast. You believe what you want to believe.

Right. I'll believe the actual numbers, that 1.5 billion Muslims do not follow the Ultra-Orthodox you spout as being "true Islam" (Hey, you and the Saudi Clerics have something in common! Neato!) and you can keep on fearing the boogieman under your bed. Easier than accepting you are wrong, or admitting that "The One True Islam" was a hyperbole to stir the fears up and what you mean is, "The One True Islam*

*[Or Sects That Resemble It In Many Ways, But Differ In Others Based On Cultural Differences, Various Interpretations and Geo-Political Factors]".

Of course, admitting that would also undermine your entire belief that Islam is infailable... bit of a rock and a hard place... weird how the moment evidence goes contrary to you, you suddenly aren't at all interested in being proven wrong and turn your head the other way...

For those whom it may concern; do you perhaps have a glimpse now into why I don't always bother responding with facts, but rather just an, "Lol. Okay." sort of stab?

[pr126]

Right. I'll believe the actual numbers, that 1.5 billion Muslims do not follow the Ultra-Orthodox you spout as being "true Islam" (Hey, you and the Saudi Clerics have something in common! Neato!) and you can keep on fearing the boogieman under your bed. Easier than accepting you are wrong, or admitting that "The One True Islam" doesn't exist and what you mean is, "The One True Islam*

*[Or Sects That Resemble It In Many Ways, But Differ In Others Based On Cultural Differences and Geo-Political Factors]".

For those whom it may concern; do you perhaps have a glimpse now into why I don't always bother responding with facts, but rather just an, "Lol. Okay." sort of stab?

Shiranu, I am tired and weary to teach the unteachable.  It can't be done.

[Shiranu]

Shiranu, I am tired and weary to teach the unteachable.  It can't be done.

If you say so, Pr126-Sensei. Frankly, your xenophobic beliefs are not something I wish to learn anyways. Thank you for your earlier attempts though!

Note: Edited for -kun, which was the wrong honorific, though kinda of funny in hindsight. Ah well.

[mauricio]

mauricio wrote:And how soon do you expect this to happen?

BTW, who is doing the supporting and how can it be done?

first question I have no idea. Second question Sam harris and maajid nawas. Maajid Nawaz changed the mind of a bomb maker, while in prison for being an islamist, about targeting western civilians. Seriously the speeches by Maajid Nawaz are really powerful the guy knows how to use rhetoric, obviously not all radicals will buy it and many despise it, but he is a beacon of hope imo. Listen to this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw1TLVKadzg
https://youtu.be/sWclm4Bi4UM?t=1h14m5s
https://youtu.be/OTEh_xtZhtA?t=1m27s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9rM6BKAGss&index=1&list=PLf3UymFHxHUnj-UAxe3DrO01ooJL7UB1I

[Shiranu]

first question I have no idea. Second question Sam harris and maajid nawas. Maajid Nawaz changed the mind of a bomb maker, while in prison for being an islamist, about targeting western civilians. Seriously the speeches by Maajid Nawaz are really powerful the guy knows how to use rhetoric, obviously not all radicals will buy it and many despise it, but he is a beacon of hope imo. Listen to this.

https://youtu.be/sWclm4Bi4UM?t=1h14m5s
https://youtu.be/OTEh_xtZhtA?t=1m27s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9rM6BKAGss&index=1&list=PLf3UymFHxHUnj-UAxe3DrO01ooJL7UB1I

Cant stand many of Harris' political views, but theologically/philosophically I don't know enough about him to like him or dislike him.

Likewise, I don't know much of this  Maajid Nawaz, but I am liking what I have heard so far from him. Don't have time to watch the whole video and see if he ends up going way out to left/right field and lose me though...

[pr126]

Shiranu wrote:

Frankly, your xenophobic beliefs are not something I wish to learn anyways.

Shhhh. Don't tell everybody.

European Union: Legislation on Racism and Xenophobia

(Dec 16, 2008) On November 28, 2008, after lengthy negotiations, the Council of the European Union Framework Decision on Combating Certain Forms and Expressions of Racism and Xenophobia by Means of Criminal Law was finally adopted. The Decision obliges the EU Member States to criminalize the following intentional conduct:

Expecting the thought police to break down my door any minute...

[mauricio]

Shiranu wrote:

Shhhh. Don't tell everybody.

European Union: Legislation on Racism and Xenophobia

Expecting the thought police to break down my door any minute...

The fact that political correctness is stupid does not make your points any more valid. Actually argue your case clearly.

[jonb]

Expecting the thought police to break down my door any minute...

I would not worry, they have not gone after Tony Blair yet who is clearly more in breach of those laws than you are.
Tony still will not admit how many Iraqis his orders killed.

[mauricio]

Cant stand many of Harris' political views, but theologically/philosophically I don't know enough about him to like him or dislike him.

Likewise, I don't know much of this  Maajid Nawaz, but I am liking what I have heard so far from him. Don't have time to watch the whole video and see if he ends up going way out to left/right field and lose me though...

Sam harris is kind of meh and takes a long time to make his point clear, but the slander he received from certain ''progressives'' (heavy emphasis on those quotation marks) like reza aslan , glenn greenwald, the young turks and ben affleck. Helped open my mind to the bullshit on my political side of the fence and made me see the fallaciousness of identity politics. I respect him for giving Maajid Nawaz a plataform and for changing his mind on the way he talks about islam by talking to Maajid. Maajid Nawaz imo is a great guy, hes very eloquent and conciliatory I urge you to hear what he has to say specially what he says about islamophobia and the voldemort effect, so you avoid the traps of identity politics.

[pr126]

I always wonder why those 1.5 billion peaceful moderate Muslims not protesting, demonstrating, speaking out against the tiny minority of jihadist who are clearly misunderstanding the peaceful teachings of Islam?

Any thoughts? 

Probably the wrong question.

[josephpalazzo]

This is truth to a certain extend but look at christianity now a days, ultimately doctrine will be reshaped when the ethics of the believers evolve and their governments become more secular, which did actually kind of happen with the Ba'athism ideology,though this ideology was applied brutally with iron fist by dictators which had the opposite effect and caused radicalization. The best we can do for now is support Islam reformists and accelerate this evolution.

I hear what you say but you need to take into account certain facts. Historically, Europe was no more different than the Muslim world - religion was the main course on the political agenda. However, Europe went through a horrific 30-year war that led to the concept of secularism - an idea which eventually was embedded in the US constitution. In the intervening years, it has become the basis of Western civilization. Unfortunately, the Muslim world did not go through a similar transformation. Reformist or moderates in the Muslim world have no or very little voice as what they advocate is basically like hitting your head against the wall. And so what we have in our time is a country like Saudi Arabia, a state at the complete opposite of a secular state, taking in billions of dollars every day, and spending it to promote its vision of the world throughout the Western world. The worst part is that it has maneuvered itself to be an indispensable ally of the US in the ME. And as a result, its strategy is going on full blast. And the main victim in this will be Europe.

[josephpalazzo]

"This is why the article is a lie, because" .... and then present your counter argument with sources.
Until then, your posts are just your opinions.

Don't worry about Shiranu. He has accused me of the same "crimes". Shiranu  has proven himself to be a staunch Islamic apologist. He is the poster child of the LEFT. In whatever argument you get into with him will quickly devolve into ad hominem.