The Islamic State

[pr126]

The Islamic State

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Not that any of this has to do with Islam.

[josephpalazzo]

 It's the 21st-century Islamic version of the medieval Christian Crusades. Eventually it will lose its attraction. After they have made quick victories, they are bogged down to govern these territories, of which they have little inclination and know-how. And with Russia now entering the conflict, the equation has changed. For better or for worse, the US is forced now to engage more than it ever wanted to. In retrospect, Syria and Iraq were countries forged by the Western powers after WW1. It's unravelling because the borders drawn then did not take into account the rivalry of the many ethnic cultures that is strewn across the landscape. When the conflict ends, who knows perhaps in a decade or so, I doubt ISIS will still exist.

[SGOS]

When the conflict ends, who knows perhaps in a decade or so,

You're being quite the optimist this morning.

[pr126]

This war has started 622 CE, and it is not going to end any time soon.
It is called jihad, or holy war. 

[Baruch]

War started in 3000 BCE, by the Pharaoh ... see Narmer Palette.  His Hamitic highness was executing a Semitic prisoner.

If pr126 you know so much about ISIS, maybe you are part of the Inner Circle ... and are betraying their agenda? ;-)

On the other hand, most cultures (including the US) need to have a boogie man, and if the boogie man isn't scary enough, we poke him with a stick.  Stalin was an easy target for US/GB.  Otherwise how can we keep the MIC funded and blooded?

[josephpalazzo]

You're being quite the optimist this morning.

I believe that Trump will be the next president, and he knows how to negotiate. So there.

On a more serious note, the entrance of Russia has put the White House on the spot. The US can no longer afford the luxury of sitting on the fence. Whoever wins the presidency will have to reckon with that new reality, and will have to compose a more robust policy. The US cannot and won't let Putin win the prize, we're talking about trillions of dollars pouring into the hands of big corporations to make the US number 1 on the military spectrum. If the US fails here, the whole system of the military-industrial complex falls apart. So yes, this conflict goes way beyond than ISIS wanting to establish a caliphate from Spain to India.

[stromboli]

When I first joined the forum I submitted a CIA appraisal of the situation in the Middle East- before my son left on his 2nd tour to Iraq- that stated the best solution was to develop alternative energy sources and divest ourselves of foreign oil. Now the situation is becoming more drastic, aided and abetted by our stupid foreign policies that have destabilized regions, and now with Russia in the mix, it will get nasty. Putin will do what he wants to get what he wants. We haven't made a good decision in the Middle East since Israel became a nation.

The single best answer is to develop alternatives to oil now, right now, and divest ourselves of Saudi interests. They are the enemy to the west. They are tacitly if not actively supporting ISIS. We destabilized Iraq and accomplished nothing in Afghanistan but generated more hate against the U. S.. My son said we were doing nothing but teaching the terrorists how to fight better.

Divesting ourselves of oil and fighting global warming also works to combat global terrorism.

Europe is frightened. there will be a growing call for strong responses and ultra conservative, anti Islam leaders will become more popular. The first person that succeeds in stemming the tide of Islam into Europe will become their biggest hope. I think neutral liberal approaches will disappear and be replaced by a much more conservative stance-read Christian fundamentalism, since it has always been the enemy of Islam. 

Welcome to the future.

[SGOS]

The single best answer is to develop alternatives to oil now, right now, and divest ourselves of Saudi interests.

Divesting ourselves of oil and fighting global warming also works to combat global terrorism.

Europe is frightened. there will be a growing call for strong responses and ultra conservative, anti Islam leaders will become more popular.
Welcome to the future.

I think you may be right, and I anticipate a more conservative response in the US, also.  I don't know how that will help divest ourselves of foreign oil, but I'm guessing it will be a good excuse to weaken environmental protections on oil development here in the US.  It will be interesting to see how all this plays out, and what corporations benefit the most.

It's possible that ISIS would have shown up without our destabilization of the Mideast, but I personally doubt that.  Saddam did manage to keep a lid on things.  And the new government we/they installed did a lot of things that did not decrease tensions in the country.  Rather than work toward accommodating religious tolerance, they seemed to have just turned the tables on the ruling class and created a new pecking order.

[Baruch]

Stromboli - exactly.  When I graduated from college, I initially wanted to go into "alternative energy" but there were no opportunities.  All the opportunities were with the MIC ... and folks selling pet rocks.  So hi ho, hi ho ... it is off to the MIC I go ...

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.  This worked against the Soviets, and it has worked against us too ... all thru the Cold War and beyond.  Smart people don't kick the fire ant mound.

[josephpalazzo]

When I first joined the forum I submitted a CIA appraisal of the situation in the Middle East- before my son left on his 2nd tour to Iraq- that stated the best solution was to develop alternative energy sources and divest ourselves of foreign oil. Now the situation is becoming more drastic, aided and abetted by our stupid foreign policies that have destabilized regions, and now with Russia in the mix, it will get nasty. Putin will do what he wants to get what he wants. We haven't made a good decision in the Middle East since Israel became a nation.

The single best answer is to develop alternatives to oil now, right now, and divest ourselves of Saudi interests. They are the enemy to the west. They are tacitly if not actively supporting ISIS. We destabilized Iraq and accomplished nothing in Afghanistan but generated more hate against the U. S.. My son said we were doing nothing but teaching the terrorists how to fight better.

Divesting ourselves of oil and fighting global warming also works to combat global terrorism.

Europe is frightened. there will be a growing call for strong responses and ultra conservative, anti Islam leaders will become more popular. The first person that succeeds in stemming the tide of Islam into Europe will become their biggest hope. I think neutral liberal approaches will disappear and be replaced by a much more conservative stance-read Christian fundamentalism, since it has always been the enemy of Islam. 

Welcome to the future.

You have to realize that transitioning from fossil fuel to greener energy sources is going to take 40-50 years. It's a long term project, and it has to be done. The question is how much effort are we going to put in that endeavor, remains to be seen. However, the challenge that the crisis in the ME poses for the US is right now. Obama is not the person to deal with this effectively. He is more concern now that he is in the final years of his presidency with his legacy over domestic policies, which is really normal. and Putin is quite aware of this. Just listen to his interview with Charlie Rose, he knows and understands more about the intricacies of US politics than the average American. And he definitely knows that his move in Syria is good timing. In fifteen months, there will be a new president, and in politics, that's an eternity. What happens in Syria during that time you can bet that it will be crucial for future US policies.

[pr126]

Have a look at this:

The most dangerous man in the world

[Baruch]

Correct.  There is nothing more dangerous than a man who thinks he knows, when in fact he does not.

[josephpalazzo]

Have a look at this:

The most dangerous man in the world

I wouldn't consider him as dangerous - the Right is always exaggerating when it comes to evaluating Obama, but that's par for the course. He has no doubt been ineffective. This historical attempt of reconciliation with countries that had been at odds with the US has not delivered what Obama had hoped for.  Now the US has to learn from these lessons, and forge a more robust policy. Of course, should the next president further divides what is already a very partisan and fractious Congress, the US will continue to slide further down.

[popsthebuilder]

When I first joined the forum I submitted a CIA appraisal of the situation in the Middle East- before my son left on his 2nd tour to Iraq- that stated the best solution was to develop alternative energy sources and divest ourselves of foreign oil. Now the situation is becoming more drastic, aided and abetted by our stupid foreign policies that have destabilized regions, and now with Russia in the mix, it will get nasty. Putin will do what he wants to get what he wants. We haven't made a good decision in the Middle East since Israel became a nation.

The single best answer is to develop alternatives to oil now, right now, and divest ourselves of Saudi interests. They are the enemy to the west. They are tacitly if not actively supporting ISIS. We destabilized Iraq and accomplished nothing in Afghanistan but generated more hate against the U. S.. My son said we were doing nothing but teaching the terrorists how to fight better.

Divesting ourselves of oil and fighting global warming also works to combat global terrorism.

Europe is frightened. there will be a growing call for strong responses and ultra conservative, anti Islam leaders will become more popular. The first person that succeeds in stemming the tide of Islam into Europe will become their biggest hope. I think neutral liberal approaches will disappear and be replaced by a much more conservative stance-read Christian fundamentalism, since it has always been the enemy of Islam. 

Welcome to the future.

What you speak of is the antichrist among other things. The only true Faith and direction will come from peaceful unity under the one God through Crist.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[Shiranu]

While ISIS's radicals continue to make a scene, as a whole the power structure of ISIS is not particularly all that strong. Many "members" of ISIS are people who join to avoid paying "special taxes" that are unaffordable and basically being starved to death. ISIS will probably be around for a decade or more, but it will not last as a geopolitical entity or anything more than another terrorist organization within 2 years. It's infrastructure simply cannot maintain control of such a large region.

Unfortunately the damage will be done by then, but such is life when you destabilize a region and leave a power vacuum. The same thing has happened time and time again, and in 10-20 years there will be a new ISIS (though there is already a Christian ISIS that has killed thousands in Africa that the media isn't particularly fond of mentioning... kinda ruins the whole, "Islam is the only ideology capable of evil!" narrative)... just in some other failed state.