Is the word "Islamophobia" an apologist's charter?

[Shiranu]

twenty years ago I wrote, like many others, that Islam was merely an early version of xianity and if all else were equal in 700 years  they would be as liberal as todays xians. But this is far from the case. With xianity, education drove reform, but muslims seem to have a distinct aversion to knowledge to the point where education is not just banned,,not just shunned, but forbidden. It is forbidden for the very reason that it promotes reason and logic which Islam fears above all. IT is an especially desperate religion, and that make it especially dangerous.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/01/08/why-have-the-islamic-countries-failed-to-develop-even-with-resources-like-oil-while-countries-with-no-resources-like-switzerland-have-flourished/

An interesting article for those who want to view the world in a non-black-and-white light.

As for Muslims outside of the Middle East...

http://iraq.usembassy.gov/resources/information/current/american/statistical.html

...if Islam is anti-education, why are Muslim students in the states mirroring the trend of American students?

To view the socio-eco-political climate of the Middle East as purely, or even majority, the fault of Islam is to show an overwhelming ignorance to the historical and cultural background of these countries. Just the fact that you and  baron and the like can say, "Islam is against education" shows you have no concept of what Islam even is, because Islam is an extremely diverse religion (like all others) heavily influenced by cultural practices and political pasts of whatever country is in question.

[CrucifyCindy]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2013/01/08/why-have-the-islamic-countries-failed-to-develop-even-with-resources-like-oil-while-countries-with-no-resources-like-switzerland-have-flourished/

An interesting article for those who want to view the world in a non-black-and-white light.

As for Muslims outside of the Middle East...

http://iraq.usembassy.gov/resources/information/current/american/statistical.html

...if Islam is anti-education, why are Muslim students in the states mirroring the trend of American students?

To view the socio-eco-political climate of the Middle East as purely, or even majority, the fault of Islam is to show an overwhelming ignorance to the historical and cultural background of these countries. Just the fact that you and  baron and the like can say, "Islam is against education" shows you have no concept of what Islam even is, because Islam is an extremely diverse religion (like all others) heavily influenced by cultural practices and political pasts of whatever country is in question.

Also if Islam were anti-education then how in the hell did the Islamic Renaissance happen? They were once far ahead of the West.

[baronvonrort]

Also if Islam were anti-education then how in the hell did the Islamic Renaissance happen?

When I look at your link that no university would accept I see the idiocy of the suckhole apologists giving credit to Islam for what was really the golden age of atheism.

Your link says Ibn Sina was a muslim, Al Ghazali declared Ibn Sina was an atheist, the dim witted dopey apologists claim Ibn Sina was muslim because of some BS on wiki.

Fatwa saying Ibn Sina was atheist-
www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=87783

The shia even say Ibn Sina was atheist, will that stop apologists from giving credit to Islam for an atheist achievement in an atheist forum?
www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/63458-is-ibn-sina-considered-a-muslim

I have had muslims concede Muhammad al Razi was atheist because he said the quran is full of contradictions which is something a muslim would never say.
www.quran.com/4/82

A Pakistani atheist on Al Razi-
www.pakistaniatheist.blogspot.com.au/2010/06/freethinkers-in-history-muhammad-ibn.html

When you go through the list there is only Al Haythem who wrote his book of optics while feigning madness while under house arrest because he feared the caliph would kill him.
Being considered of sound mind is vital to execute someone for apostasy.

We should call that period the golden age of atheism.

[baronvonrort]

This is the system the "morally superiour Western culture" continues to uphold for the sake of cheaper pants. Just because we keep our slaves overseas doesn't mean they don't exist. And nice racism against Mexicans there, asshole; Latino immigrants work in far worse conditions than, "Oh, they get to scrub some rich guys toilet!"... we use them for construction, field labour and other higher risk jobs because they don't have to have insurance and they dont have to have rights.

The Islamic Revolution didn't just happen one day when the Ayatollah said, "Oh, I want power now.". It goes back a generation or two before and, frankly, to try to say the situation in Iran can be blamed on any one party (Islam) rather than being a conglomeration of various factors is extremely historically ignorant.

Oh look, more deflections from the point that, of the 111 top homicide countries, only 10 or 11 of them were Islamic (and they were the worst of the worst countries).

Just like you deflected from the fact that your number of people killed in Islamic wars was a completely bullshit number pulled out of an ultra-right wing asshole. Or just pretended that I didn't at all mention, and never have mentioned, the slavery in the Middle East as being a problem as well. Surprise surprise.

You are such a partisan hack, it is pathetic. Maybe if you could shut your damn mouth for 10 seconds about, "Oh mah gawdddd, the leffftiestsses!!!" you wouldn't make yourself look like such a fucking moron every time you inevitably regurgitate the blatant lies and inflammatory bullshit discredited hacks have spoon-fed you.

You are showing your idiocy by comparing hired workers to slaves, under Islamic law a muslim male can have sex with his slave and his wives have no right to object to him having sex with his slaves.

Khomeni was exiled from Iran, the USA had no idea the Islamic revolution was going down, of course leftist dim wits from the USA think they had something to do with it because of something that happened nearly 45 years before.
using your dopey logic we can say the USA is responsible for al shaabab in Somalia it had nothing to do with Islam.

So where does the USA rank for homicides compared to where you thought they are ranked?

The number of people killed in Islamic wars is not bullshit despite what apologists like you claim, the first Islamic massacre of jews from the banu qurayza has Islamic sources saying between 600-900 men and one woman were beheaded.
As you can see with Islamic estimates it is between 600-900 for the first one they didn't have accurate bodycounts.

We know the number of people killed by muslims is not zero yet that is how much attention  Islamic apologists like you have towards what it could be

[CrucifyCindy]

We should call that period the golden age of atheism.

Oh wow the golden age of atheism was started by cultural Muslims (most of them being Arabs) living in a Islamic milieu were they were dominant in guiding the culture. Oh the irony of it all. You know what I think if the West didn't interfere with this Arabic golden age...atheism would probably been predominant by now...oh the irony.

[baronvonrort]

Oh wow the golden age of atheism was started by cultural Muslims (most of them being Arabs) living in a Islamic milieu were they were dominant in guiding the culture. Oh the irony of it all. You know what I think if the West didn't interfere with this Arabic golden age...atheism would probably been predominant by now...oh the irony.

Al Razi sounds like he concealed his atheism if you read what he wrote.

Islam has the death penalty for atheists so unlikey for atheists to dominate when they are hung and have their heads chopped off.

In 13 countries around the world,all of them muslim,people who openly espouse atheism or reject the official state religion of Islam face execution under the law.
www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUSBRE9B900G20131210

With the Islamic state it becomes 14 countries where Islam has the death penalty for atheists, the ignorant apologists in this forum stick up for a belief that has the death penalty for atheists.

Not much intelligent life in this forum, I prefer to type to muslims instead of ignorant apologists that infect this forum

[CrucifyCindy]

Not much intelligent life in this forum, I prefer to type to muslims instead of ignorant apologists that infect this forum

Then:

[Shiranu]

When I look at your link that no university would accept I see the idiocy of the suckhole apologists giving credit to Islam for what was really the golden age of atheism.

Comic gold. Look up the definition of hypocrisy, then come back and laugh with me :).

So where does the USA rank for homicides compared to where you thought they are ranked?

That has to do with the fact there are 10 Muslim countries in the top 111 countries for homicide... how again?

Khomeni was exiled from Iran, the USA had no idea the Islamic revolution was going down, of course leftist dim wits from the USA think they had something to do with it because of something that happened nearly 45 years before.

Yes, history can never be influenced by something that happened less than 50 years ago. And the Shah, the Western backed Shah, who was overthrown by Khomeini (who latched onto the late Ali Shariati's revolutionary movement) had nothing to do with the West... the WESTERN BACKED SHAH BEING OVERTHROWN, THE IRANIAN HOSTAGE SITUATION, AND THE PROTESTS AGAINST WESTERN COLONIALISM, HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WEST.

Holy fuck but you are a special type of stupid, aren't you?

The number of people killed in Islamic wars is not bullshit despite what apologists like you claim, the first Islamic massacre of jews from the banu qurayza has Islamic sources saying between 600-900 men and one woman were beheaded.
As you can see with Islamic estimates it is between 600-900 for the first one they didn't have accurate bodycounts.

Yeah, except the source is still completely discredited and cited no work, rather she just pulled the numbers out of her ass.

Tell me, why are you a bigot, anti-intellectualism apologist? Why do you rightist dummy-heads insist on apologizing for an ideology of anti-intelligence, anti-rationality, anti-humanity?

[Cocoa Beware]

...if Islam is anti-education, why are Muslim students in the states mirroring the trend of American students?

Its probably a matter of cirriculum, demand, and not so much origin.

In a number of Muslim countries the emphasis is not so much math and science as it is pointless religious discourse.

[Shiranu]

Its probably a matter of cirriculum, demand, and not so much origin.

In a number of Muslim countries the emphasis is not so much math and science as it is pointless religious discourse.

Agreed.

[pr126]

I think that there is much more Islamophilia around than Islamophobia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8sJiyOC2Q

[drunkenshoe]

twenty years ago I wrote, like many others, that Islam was merely an early version of xianity and if all else were equal in 700 years  they would be as liberal as todays xians. But this is far from the case. With xianity, education drove reform, but muslims seem to have a distinct aversion to knowledge to the point where education is not just banned,,not just shunned, but forbidden. It is forbidden for the very reason that it promotes reason and logic which Islam fears above all. IT is an especially desperate religion, and that make it especially dangerous.

Let me get this straight, you mean that 20 years ago, in 1995 you had a reason to put your mind in to know about the religion called Islam, Islamic countries; various Islamic cultures and their place in the world?

And not just that but you also made a fair observation and came to a conclusion about an alienated foreign culture, BEFORE it has ever become a main political/cultural issue in a society isolated from the world; from any world issue, unless cannot be transformed into money or power?

And not just you, but 'many others'? Who are those people?

Sorry aitm, we have been posting to each other several years now and I am reading your posts, and also I have been around more than 20 years talking about Islam with Europeans AND Americans in person and online.  I am going to call this a hyped up bullshit on your side; evaluating Islam as a seperate religious culture same with Christianity in core.

It's safe to say that almost all of the Amercians have learned anything about Islamic cultures after 9/11. And while the American politics were in heat with 'KILL ALL OF THEM' the next half a decade after 9/11, an irriversable process of demonisation had already begun about these people and their culture(s) on an already built Oreintalism of humilitaing the said culture in every medium.

It's officially an invented evil for profit and benefit. Because the old ones has run their course. There was a need of new bullshit to feed people to gain support for policies. Islam and Orientalism have already been the same long before, Americans found out only 12 % of muslims are Arabs or people who live in Iran are not Arabs and my all time favourite that 'muslims do not speak the same language' just about 'now'. And still a minority of them. 

Sounds absurd doesn't it? A very short time ago that was the picture, it still is more or less.

[Baruch]

Since you admit you are fucking with anybody, then you should not expect any respect for your ideas in return.

Fucking with someone, is the highest form of respect ... at least among true lovers.  Maybe CrucifyCindy is just a one-night cruiser, but I don't think so.

[Baruch]

Oh wow the golden age of atheism was started by cultural Muslims (most of them being Arabs) living in a Islamic milieu were they were dominant in guiding the culture. Oh the irony of it all. You know what I think if the West didn't interfere with this Arabic golden age...atheism would probably been predominant by now...oh the irony.

Back then, and now, anyone who wasn't an IS equivalent in their day ... and still Muslim, was an atheist.  Salafists have been around for a very long time.  But that word, like many, is thrown about like dirt.  Some of the so called atheist Muslims of 1000 years ago, were among the most intelligent people of their day.  Galileo was an atheist too, because he didn't agree with ignorant Popes ... but he put his unmarried daughters into a convent ... because in fact, he was a good Catholic just looking out for their best interests in a day when women were very unfree.  Kabbalist Jews were accused of atheism also, as were Protestants.

[Baruch]

PS - I am not an apologist for anything, including Islam.  But just because I am not a genocidal maniac hiding under a rug ... doesn't mean that I support what other people think or do.  I always support people if at all possible, though this is often self contradictory.  I support some of what they think or do.  But I simply am not afraid of boogeymen, I have no desire to kill anyone, and I am able to focus on more than one idea, at least sequentially.  And a notice to the ignorant ... Muslims already have the Bomb ... in Pakistan.  So far they haven't used one on an enemy ... though I am sure they have been severely threatened of the consequences of such, by India and the US.