Reason and Logic Rule

[thebesttrees]

Maybe.  Faith when used in a religious way is blind acceptance without any facts to support that belief.  When I used it in a purely personal way, I was referring to a process that produced total acceptance of a situation--a situation that I had done all the prep for that I could do and was a way to control the fear that was present in me.  The more I think about it, the more I think trust or total trust, would work better, since it is not really blind.  I have examined the facts and have decided that this is what would be best for me; so let's do it!  So, no faith here, but total trust.

Faith in a religious way (as religious way is commonly perceived) only allows for certainty. To eliminate the "religious" notion, I used "possibility" instead of certainty. I hope that helps. And i am for possibility by the way!

[jonb]

I don't think I would have much faith in a doctor that refused to meet me in person, with certificates that were full of anomalies. Then if I were to question this, the doctor then threatened me with everlasting pain, that I must admit has forced me to look elsewhere.

[TomFoolery]

I think you were right when taking that course.

I conceded to agree that everyone does believe in something. I simply choose to believe in science, which explains how my brakes work and how surgery is able to be successful.

[Baruch]

While medicine is more a black art than auto mechanics ... at least medicine is better than it was 50 years ago ;-)

I have also been under the knife several times.  Not had a problem with it myself ... since I had little post-operative consequences.

[SGOS]

I understand faith used in a religious sense, to be total and blind.  There does not need to be any demonstration of anything for a religious person to have faith.  The theist will tell me that I believe the sun will rise every day.

This is exactly what I was getting at.  Faith requires no evidence, no statistical probability.  I expect the sun to rise, based on my understanding of the Earth's rotation, also from experience.  It's based on something that is understood and it has a good track record.  It's come up every day for 13.7 billion years.

Also, believing something is not the same thing as having faith.  It could be, but most of the time it's something else.

[Baruch]

Thebesttrees - If you are looking for solace or courage in the face of medical crisis ... then you need more EQ, not more IQ.  IQ can only help you leverage EQ (provide probable backing).  So what do you know about EQ?  The heart knows of reasons that the head knoweth not.  If you think that EQ is woo woo ... then you need to turn down your rationalizing a notch or two ... and give your heart a chance.

[Mike Cl]

This is exactly what I was getting at.  Faith requires no evidence, no statistical probability.  I expect the sun to rise, based on my understanding of the Earth's rotation, also from experience.  It's based on something that is understood and it has a good track record.  It's come up every day for 13.7 billion years.

Also, believing something is not the same thing as having faith.  It could be, but most of the time it's something else.

I think we are now in total agreement.

[TomFoolery]

Also, believing something is not the same thing as having faith.  It could be, but most of the time it's something else.

I generally agree. I think it's a word that has a gray area based on euphemisms and idioms. If I tell someone to "have faith in me," I think most people take that to mean they should believe I can accomplish something, not that I am a supernatural being.

[Mike Cl]

I generally agree. I think it's a word that has a gray area based on euphemisms and idioms. If I tell someone to "have faith in me," I think most people take that to mean they should believe I can accomplish something, not that I am a supernatural being.

Aww, comeon, TomFoolery, it would be easy to think you have supernatural powers. :))

[Sal1981]

Without sound logic and sound reason arriving at faith is an attempt in futility.  I discovered such a thing as faith when my son had to go under the knife in an emergency and I never got to see the man who operated on him. I had to put my faith in someone that I did not even know and here he was with my son's life in his hands!

I am here on this forum to learn how to apply reason and logic to arrive at faith.

Difference between a surgeon and a god, is that a surgeon is a tangible being; a god not so much.

[TomFoolery]

Aww, comeon, TomFoolery, it would be easy to think you have supernatural powers. :))

I keep them sheltered behind my bitchy resting face, so as to avoid people begging me for good deeds.

[peacewithoutgod]

Without sound logic and sound reason arriving at faith is an attempt in futility.  I discovered such a thing as faith when my son had to go under the knife in an emergency and I never got to see the man who operated on him. I had to put my faith in someone that I did not even know and here he was with my son's life in his hands!

I am here on this forum to learn how to apply reason and logic to arrive at faith.

Logical factors for "faith" in a doctor:
1. Doctor's qualifications and licensing
2. Doctor clears background research
3. Doctor's recent success rate
4. Doctor's demonstrated communication skills after an extended conversation
         ***This is critical, because doctors who don't communicate well often kill their patients!

Your doctor would usually pass all of the above prior to earning your "faith", although the word "confidence" is more appropriate. "Faith" is defined by the religious as believing in things unseen, and it's their word, they invented it. If you did not meet your son's doctor, then at least you can know somebody did who has reasonably good confidence in him.

I wish you and your son the best, hang in there!

[Mike Cl]

I keep them sheltered behind my bitchy resting face, so as to avoid people begging me for good deeds.

I can understand that. :)

[SGOS]

I generally agree. I think it's a word that has a gray area based on euphemisms and idioms. If I tell someone to "have faith in me," I think most people take that to mean they should believe I can accomplish something, not that I am a supernatural being.

It's a fertile field for equivocation, and that's the fallacy the theists milk when they say, "But you believe/have faith in something."

Yeah OK, but "I have faith that sun will rise," isn't even in the same ball park as "I have faith in Jesus."  It's equating two different things on the basis of a word with multiple meanings.

[Baruch]

That is why in English Christian hymns ... Son is conflated with sun.