HEY NRA TELL IT TO THIS BABY'S MOTHER!

[Brian37]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... g/1982235/

^ 6 month old baby SHOT 5 TIMES!

But according to the NRA 310,000,000 firearms circulating is not enough.

[billhilly]

They should ban those guns in Chicago.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Also known as "Why you don't get involved in a gang". Not a fan of the NRA, but this would've happened regardless of gun legislation.

Edit: To avoid ambiguity. I'm talking about the father here. Yes, the baby was an innocent victim, but that's what happens when you get involved with gangs: your family gets victimized.

[Brian37]

Also known as "Why you don't get involved in a gang". Not a fan of the NRA, but this would've happened regardless of gun legislation.

I would advise that too, but city dynamics for poor are not the same as say middle class suburbs. Gangs unfortunately have been a long term manifestation of lack of education, lack of economic stability and little hope for parents to be home to monitor their kids. It isn't as simple as "don't join a gang".

Gangs replace family, unfortunately they are not there to give any positive support to lead a youth in the right direction. There are merely there to protect their territory. Most of the time when someone gets caught when pushed far enough will rat out other members because they themselves have family or kids they have to protect or provide for.

When your cost of living is untenable and all you can get for work is $7.25 evolution kicks in and people will do what they have to do to try to get resources.

The cure is not only less guns, but investment in education, investment in communities and better pay so that parents can be at home to monitor kids.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Also known as "Why you don't get involved in a gang". Not a fan of the NRA, but this would've happened regardless of gun legislation.

I would advise that too, but city dynamics for poor are not the same as say middle class suburbs. Gangs unfortunately have been a long term manifestation of lack of education, lack of economic stability and little hope for parents to be home to monitor their kids. It isn't as simple as "don't join a gang".

Gangs replace family, unfortunately they are not there to give any positive support to lead a youth in the right direction. There are merely there to protect their territory. Most of the time when someone gets caught when pushed far enough will rat out other members because they themselves have family or kids they have to protect or provide for.

When your cost of living is untenable and all you can get for work is $7.25 evolution kicks in and people will do what they have to do to try to get resources.

The cure is not only less guns, but investment in education, investment in communities and better pay so that parents can be at home to monitor kids.

I agree with the bolded part. Would've been nice if you would've mentioned that in your first post, but instead you used it to rant against the NRA.

I don't like the NRA either, they marginalize gun owners like me who want realistic solutions to gun violence and violence in general. It seems like their current mission is to make all gun owners seem like crazy assholes, when a vast majority of us aren't.

[Brian37]

Also known as "Why you don't get involved in a gang". Not a fan of the NRA, but this would've happened regardless of gun legislation.

Edit: To avoid ambiguity. I'm talking about the father here. Yes, the baby was an innocent victim, but that's what happens when you get involved with gangs: your family gets victimized.

GOD DAMN! This is the problem right here. It should not matter what he was into, the CLIMATE is the long term problem, not one person and not one case.

This is like saying "She was only a street prostitute hooked on meth".

Maybe if the conditions that got him into that gang were not there he wouldn't have, and that also allows fucknut gun manufactures more fuel to use the NRA as a heat shield to deflect attention of the damage their products do.

This also demeans the mother and the baby, and ALL victims of gun death, city or suburb, middle class or poor, gang or mass shooting. By doing this WE lose focus on the entire epidemic, which affects all of us no matter where we live.

The conditions that lead to our epidemic are too many guns, no mental health care, no economic stability. That includes family murder in the suburbs, suicides, gang violence and mass shootings.

My younger sister had a family 2 blocks away from where she lives 2 kids and a wife SHOT DEAD then the father committed suicide. So while this story did involve a gang, my sister's story DID NOT. Our gun culture is doing nothing to reduce ANY form of gun death.

It should not matter if he was in a gang. The problem stems from society as a whole and gun manufactures and corporate America refusing to address the conditions that cause people to feel desperate enough to get to that point.

Our conditions are due to lack of health care, lack of good paying jobs, lack of education, and exploding pay gap. The gun manufacturing industry has no interest in reducing gun death of any kind. The more crime, the more fear, the more fear, the more they scare the shit out of the public, the more people feel the need to own guns.

A business's first goal is to maintain and or increase sales. If economic stability goes up, crime goes down, desperation goes down, family stability goes up. That means less sales for the manufactures.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Also known as "Why you don't get involved in a gang". Not a fan of the NRA, but this would've happened regardless of gun legislation.

Edit: To avoid ambiguity. I'm talking about the father here. Yes, the baby was an innocent victim, but that's what happens when you get involved with gangs: your family gets victimized.

GOD DAMN! This is the problem right here. It should not matter what he was into, the CLIMATE is the long term problem, not one person and not one case.

This is like saying "She was only a street prostitute hooked on meth".

Maybe if the conditions that got him into that gang were not there he wouldn't have, and that also allows fucknut gun manufactures more fuel to use the NRA as a heat shield to deflect attention of the damage their products do.

This also demeans the mother and the baby, and ALL victims of gun death, city or suburb, middle class or poor, gang or mass shooting. By doing this WE lose focus on the entire epidemic, which affects all of us no matter where we live.

The conditions that lead to our epidemic are too many guns, no mental health care, no economic stability. That includes family murder in the suburbs, suicides, gang violence and mass shootings.

My younger sister had a family 2 blocks away from where she lives 2 kids and a wife SHOT DEAD then the father committed suicide. So while this story did involve a gang, my sister's story DID NOT. Our gun culture is doing nothing to reduce ANY form of gun death.

It should not matter if he was in a gang. The problem stems from society as a whole and gun manufactures and corporate America refusing to address the conditions that cause people to feel desperate enough to get to that point.

Our conditions are due to lack of health care, lack of good paying jobs, lack of education, and exploding pay gap. The gun manufacturing industry has no interest in reducing gun death of any kind. The more crime, the more fear, the more fear, the more they scare the shit out of the public, the more people feel the need to own guns.

A business's first goal is to maintain and or increase sales. If economic stability goes up, crime goes down, desperation goes down, family stability goes up. That means less sales for the manufactures.

Great job ignoring where I agreed with you.

And yes, it does matter that he was in a gang because in the end him being in a gang is what lead to his daughter's death. Factors like that always matter, as well as understanding the causes behind them.

In the situation with the other family you mentioned the father's mental health would have mattered, as well as what was the base cause of his mental disorder. Gangs, mental health, these are specific things that can't be ignored just because we also know the cause of them.

[Brian37]

Also known as "Why you don't get involved in a gang". Not a fan of the NRA, but this would've happened regardless of gun legislation.

Edit: To avoid ambiguity. I'm talking about the father here. Yes, the baby was an innocent victim, but that's what happens when you get involved with gangs: your family gets victimized.

GOD DAMN! This is the problem right here. It should not matter what he was into, the CLIMATE is the long term problem, not one person and not one case.

This is like saying "She was only a street prostitute hooked on meth".

Maybe if the conditions that got him into that gang were not there he wouldn't have, and that also allows fucknut gun manufactures more fuel to use the NRA as a heat shield to deflect attention of the damage their products do.

This also demeans the mother and the baby, and ALL victims of gun death, city or suburb, middle class or poor, gang or mass shooting. By doing this WE lose focus on the entire epidemic, which affects all of us no matter where we live.

The conditions that lead to our epidemic are too many guns, no mental health care, no economic stability. That includes family murder in the suburbs, suicides, gang violence and mass shootings.

My younger sister had a family 2 blocks away from where she lives 2 kids and a wife SHOT DEAD then the father committed suicide. So while this story did involve a gang, my sister's story DID NOT. Our gun culture is doing nothing to reduce ANY form of gun death.

It should not matter if he was in a gang. The problem stems from society as a whole and gun manufactures and corporate America refusing to address the conditions that cause people to feel desperate enough to get to that point.

Our conditions are due to lack of health care, lack of good paying jobs, lack of education, and exploding pay gap. The gun manufacturing industry has no interest in reducing gun death of any kind. The more crime, the more fear, the more fear, the more they scare the shit out of the public, the more people feel the need to own guns.

A business's first goal is to maintain and or increase sales. If economic stability goes up, crime goes down, desperation goes down, family stability goes up. That means less sales for the manufactures.

Great job ignoring where I agreed with you.

And yes, it does matter that he was in a gang because in the end him being in a gang is what lead to his daughter's death. Factors like that always matter, as well as understanding the causes behind them.

In the situation with the other family you mentioned the father's mental health would have mattered, as well as what was the base cause of his mental disorder. Gangs, mental health, these are specific things that can't be ignored just because we also know the cause of them.

NO IT DOES NOT!

Somalia has nothing but warlords, a few rich families and a majority of that population poor. We hear about pirates hijacking ships all the time. They don't do it because of any idealistic statement, they do it because they are desparate.

He got in a gang because the conditions in that community make the odds for ANYONE male living there greater. Address the conditions and the odds would go down that people would turn to gangs.

Just like if Somalia had a Canadian or German economy there would be no pirates because people would not be desperate.

What you are doing is buying into corporate scapegoating. As long as we live in an extraction market where the cost of living sky rockets while wages stagnate or fall and the pay gap explodes, problems like this guy getting into a gang in the first place are going to remain. It is not enough to simply pay lip service by saying "don't do it", you have to have favorable conditions to make the likelyhood that they will listen when you say that greater.

This is a human condition issue. Not a gang issue. The same feelings of desperation cause domestic murder and suicide. The same feelings of desperation cause pirates to rob ships.