Is Christianity racist?

[Mike Cl]

Inasmuch as anyone can become a Christian regardless of their race the then the answer is no
But individual Christians can be racist however. And there can also be Christians who interpret
scripture from a racist perspective. Such as for example blaming the Jews for the crucifixion of 
Jesus. But it was the Romans that were responsible for it since they were the occupying power
at the time so had the authority in deciding who could be crucified. And to day many American
Christians pray for Israels destruction since they think it will be the beginning of the End Times
And so while Christianity is available to anyone it does have a history of anti Semitism within it

This may be a minor point to some, but I'd like to point out that Jesus is a myth and could not have been crucified by either party.  One cannot, in reality, crucify the Tooth Fairy.  But, with that aside, I'd say that the one responsible for the death of the mythical Jesus was not either the Romans nor the Jews, but God who had this all mapped out from the beginning of time.

[Baruch]

Mike CL ... yes, that is the Christian theology.  Particularly Augustinian ... that everything is machine like with no free will ... just zombie puppets.  But Augustine lived 400 years after Paul.  So which Christianity are we speaking of again?

Mud people of course come from Southern USA theology.  Much later than the Pauline or Augustinian.  Now what are the connections?  To a degree, for example, the anti-Semitism of Hitler, can be blamed on Luther, but not all of it.

Crucifixion was practiced a lot for 100 years before Paul to 100 years after Paul.  The first people in Palestine to do that, where the Sadducees ... who did it first to the Pharisees, when the Pharisees first became a political force.  In the Gospels, if read neutrally, both the Jews and Romans were guilty ... not just the Jewish/Roman authorities but the Jewish/Roman people.  If an actual Jesus showed up, the same thing but for real would happen ... sedition would be punished by execution ... because the Jesus message is intolerable to almost all people, even Peter and Paul.

[soonerboomer001.]

To my knowledge there are no verses that condone slavery. There are references to slavery but there are also verses that allude to 12 year olds getting married. Two practices we no longer participate in. There's alot to be said for civility. I found no verses about racism, I personally feel God finds that disgusting because we are all one brotherhood under Abraham.

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[Munch]

To my knowledge there are no verses that condone slavery. There are references to slavery but there are also verses that allude to 12 year olds getting married. Two practices we no longer participate in. There's alot to be said for civility. I found no verses about racism, I personally feel God finds that disgusting because we are all one brotherhood under Abraham.

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You mean except for women, gays and those who don't believe in him, then they can be beaten to death or killed by earthquakes

[soonerboomer001.]

You mean except for women, gays and those who don't believe in him, then they can be beaten to death or killed by earthquakes

I'm picking up some extreme bitterness on your part. When earthquakes, tornadoes and hurricanes occur, they are not an act of God to thin out the herd. Rain falls on the just as well as the unjust. That is a verse straight from the bible. Christians sin too, we are not exempt from human behavior. God's mercies are renewed daily. I don't know what happened to make you as angry and bitter as you are, but I hope you come to terms with it. Good luck and God bless.

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[Munch]

yes thats all lovely, but care to answer my question on the other thread?

Though I would like you ask of your personal stance on homosexuality in the world, and women in the church.

[CrucifyCindy]

Well I think it is better served to actually learn what Paul of Taurus and Jesus of Nazareth actually taught about racism. Jesus wasn't exactly square with the rest of the Jews on how they treated or viewed the Samaratians or other gentiles and Paul of Taurus actually taught that in Christ that there is no inequality between Jew or Gentile or Greek or Barbarian that all are equal within Christ. So what we get from this is that Christians are a bunch on hypocrites who actually do not follow the teachings of the founders of their religion.

[Solitary]

http://atheism.about.com/od/secularismseparation/fl/Secularization-Inimical-Religion.htm?utm_content=20150828&utm_medium=email&utm_source=exp_nl&utm_campaign=list_atheism&utm_term=list_atheism


Some people believe that religion cannot survive in a secular society. Apparently, the voluntary and personal commitment of individual members to their churches or other religious organizations isn't sufficient; instead, religion needs the active defense and support of the state. Otherwise, people will find it too easy to drift away from religion.

If it's false, then it's a political scam to get financial and political support for religious organizations that can't function with just the support of its paying members.

But since I did not fit in with my classmates, I was desperate to prove that I belonged to another relevant social group â€" namely, black people. So I went along with our director’s decision and now have the distinction of being the most woefully miscast Rapping Angel in the history of cheesy Christmas musicals.

The church taught me that I belong nowhere â€" not even in the tiny stereotypical box that they tried to stuff me into.

WHEN I LEARNED THAT I WAS OVERLY SENSITIVE
When I was a high school student, I walked into a local pastor’s home and was immediately assaulted by the sight of a large confederate flag hanging on the wall. I gasped and asked them why they had a confederate flag. With disarming matter-of-factness, they told me that they liked the colors, the aesthetic and the “rebel” image that it projected. I tried to explain (as best I could as a frazzled teen) that the flag invokes painful images of black oppression but they remained committed to their blissful ignorance. Ultimately, they shoo-ed me away, telling me that I was making a big deal out of nothing and that I focused too much on negative events that were resolved long ago. The flag remained mounted on the wall for years.

The church taught me that my perspective is invalid and that the pain of my people is unimportant.

WHEN I LEARNED THAT RACISM IS HILARIOUS
During college, I volunteered for the youth ministry at a church. Every year at the volunteer Christmas party, the two white guys who worked for the ministry dressed up as “black guys from the hood” and performed an entirely unoriginal and unfunny skit that exploited negative black male stereotypes for laughs. I remember looking around the room full of volunteers, seeing the delight in their eyes as they laughed loudly at the racist jokes. I also remember feeling discouraged that a predominantly-white group of Christians (who were supposedly my friends) were laughing at white guys impersonating black guys in extremely unflattering ways. When I asked the pastor (the staff guys’ boss) about the skit, he agreed that it was offensive. But he failed to confront the issue; the skit was performed every year for the multiple years that I served as a volunteer.

The church taught me that racism is acceptable as long as it’s carried out in pursuit of laughs.

WHEN I LEARNED THAT STRUCTURAL RACISM IS A FIGMENT OF MY IMAGINATION

As a young adult, I spent several years working for a well-respected and well-known Christian organization on the East Coast. On an individual basis, my majority-culture colleagues were overtly pleasant for the most part. However, in a subtle but haunting way, the organizational culture marginalized, befuddled and oppressed the ethnic minorities in the group.

The evaluation and promotion policies, social structure, and even the ways that they talked about faith worked to accommodate people from majority culture and alienate people who were different. As a result, the people of color in the organization were plagued with loneliness, plundered identities and perpetual stress. Indeed, at least one person of color was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress, a diagnosis that was directly linked to the way that the organization oppressed people of color.

When I brought my concerns to the president of the organization, he became fiercely defensive, accused me of inventing stories, and denied that structural racism was at work. I moved on after a few years. But as far as I know, the organization remains unchanged.

The church taught me that my experience of racism is only real if the majority culture says it is.

[Mike Cl]

I'm picking up some extreme bitterness on your part. When earthquakes, tornadoes and hurricanes occur, they are not an act of God to thin out the herd. Rain falls on the just as well as the unjust. That is a verse straight from the bible. Christians sin too, we are not exempt from human behavior. God's mercies are renewed daily. I don't know what happened to make you as angry and bitter as you are, but I hope you come to terms with it. Good luck and God bless.

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I can't and won't speak for Munch.  Who, actually isn't all that bitter and you could learn that by reading some of his posts.  You waltz into this site, you don't introduce yourself (you do realize this is an atheist site????) and start in with your religious tract spiels.  All of us know the babble for what it is--babble.  Maybe if you made an effort to communicate you would not encounter so much 'hostility' in response to what we consider 'hostile' comments from you.


You see, I don't believe in your god--in your jesus--your bible.  It is all based on beliefs and not facts.  So, what you believe your god does or does not do is of no consequence to me--it matters not; it would be like me worrying if I pissed off the Tooth Fairy or not. 

[Baruch]

CrucifyCindy ... if the founder of Christianity is Constantine, not Paul, not Jesus ... then the Christians are for the most part, not hypocrits.  They are continuing the ongoing aggrandizement of the "extended" Roman state.  Even if Germany 200 years ago, the Holy Roman Empire ... was neither holy, not Roman, nor an empire ;-)

[CrucifyCindy]

CrucifyCindy ... if the founder of Christianity is Constantine, not Paul, not Jesus ... then the Christians are for the most part, not hypocrits.  They are continuing the ongoing aggrandizement of the "extended" Roman state.  Even if Germany 200 years ago, the Holy Roman Empire ... was neither holy, not Roman, nor an empire ;-)

If Constantine was the founder of Christianity as your are so fondly in love with that theory then why isn't Christianity Arian instead of Trinitarian? I mean since the actual real Constantine was a Arian?

[Baruch]

CrucifyCindy ... Excellent question!  If we look at this from 300 CE ... then we have a diverse oppressed family of Christ followers (not Jesus, not Paul) who are oppressed by the Roman state, because you can't have a religion, or a club (congregation) without being a sedition.  While not all sedition was actively ferreted out, if it was discovered, it was punished severely.  We also have Jewish survivors who have managed to buy off the Roman state, and have been on good behavior (prisoners on parole, literally, up until 1948) for 150 years.  The Roman state is in trouble, it needs to survive in spite of its contradictions (see Soviet Union), it needs an overarching ideology/theology that will create a new Rome that paganism is unable to create (too many different gods covering too many ethnicities, languages, cultures, politics).  The emperor worship created by Augustus, was supposed to overcome this ... an import from Ptolemaic Egypt.  But the reputation, and the treasury of the Emperors had been drained dry by 250 CE.  Various emperors tried various stopgaps ... such as Sol Invictus ... the original deity worshipped by Constantine.

One problem with the Christians, aside from their existing divisiveness, was their rejection of Emperor worship (the cult of Augustus, which lives still in the fetish of the monarchy of England and the presidency of the US) and their pacifism.  Their disunity would have to be eliminated if they were to prove useful as a unifying element of the Roman state.  And they would have to be legitimized as a club/religion.  And they would have to accept the authority of the Emperor.  And they would have to reject pacifism in favor of "onward Christian soldier" at the Milvian Bridge and ever afterward.  So Constantine cut a deal, while they were in dire need of relief.  The Diocletian terror just previous, had been the worst of all.  So Constantine made the priests into civil servants of the state.  Constantine made his own birthday the official birthday of Christ (not Jesus ... this is Christos Pantokrator (emperor)).  Continuity with the previous state of affairs was cleverly obtained.  Differences (Arianism was one of many alternatives) were worked out at Nicea .. and the bishop in charge of that synod was the guy who wrote the first official history of the Church.  Constantine himself resolved some of the disputes at the synod by revealing new Sibylline oracles.  But Constantine was treasonous, murderous opportunist.  He didn't care what theology came out of Nicea, as long as the arguing stopped, and the Church served the Roman state.  But arguing didn't stop but continued up until a later Christian Emperor, Theodosius.  Theodosius resolved all issues regarding theology and politics, in favor of Bishop Athanasius (who was anti-Arian), and in favor of what we would now call the Greek Orthodox Church, which became the only legal religion (Latin Christians were tolerated as second class congregants).  Arians continued outside the reach of Emperor Theodosius, for another century or two (the Goths had been converted by an Arian bishop).  This difference in Christian creed, was useful for Gothic politics.  Much of this arguing came out of the political/religious factions in Alexandria Egypt (parent of Augustan theocracy) ... and it was there that the veneration of Mary was first put forward officially (it had existed unofficially elsewhere), mostly as cover for Isis worship.  All of this was because of Alexandrian politics ... the bishops there represented different theological/political factions ... that weren't silenced until the Muslims conquered Egypt.

The change from 300 CE to 400 CE was black and white.  Original Christianity was only allowed to survive as the monastics in Egypt.  Had it continued in its original form, it would have been a bunch of socialist pacifist New Age hippies living in urban communes ... and not in any way unified into one Church.  And that is why the 1960s were so interesting ... that and the birth of the Jesus Freaks and the rebirth of Messianic Judaism.

[aitm]

You're right, I am new and didn't realize what this was at first, and instead of being politely informed ….
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really? You're too stupid to read the headline that actually, you know….says Atheist Forums? And you think we should realize you're too stupid to read and thus grant you what… a do over due to "bumbling stupidity"?

Congratulations!! You are right. We did NOT know you were a moron, so please accept our heartfelt apologies. Welcome to our forum stranger, I certainly hope we can move forward from this unpleasant experience and learn and challenge each other in a educational and respectable way. Hot damn, I feel good about this!

[soonerboomer001.]

really? You're too stupid to read the headline that actually, you know….says Atheist Forums? And you think we should realize you're too stupid to read and thus grant you what… a do over due to "bumbling stupidity"?

Congratulations!! You are right. We did NOT know you were a moron, so please accept our heartfelt apologies. Welcome to our forum stranger, I certainly hope we can move forward from this unpleasant experience and learn and challenge each other in a educational and respectable way. Hot damn, I feel good about this!

You belong in hell

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[aitm]

You belong in hell

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What?? well I apologized… I even welcomed you…..my goodness, you are NOT a very good thumper bumper are you?  Well, I will rise above the cesspool you live in and try again…welcome to our home unclean human, I certainly hope you have had the head of your penis cut, we don't need any chance of that disease spreading about do we eh?