The idea that "you send yourself to hell"

[Solitary]

We all die no matter what our beliefs, so what the fuck does it matter, we are all fucked?

[Baruch]

GSOgymrat ... how do you know the Matrix isn't already on-line?  As screwed up as things are, I smell the foul stench of Redmond WA.

NakedTracyBlack ... why do people believe in an all loving god?  Let alone a rational one.  If I woke up tomorrow as a god, would I want to be more like George Burns, Morgan Freeman or Jim Carrey?  If we humanize G-d (we have no choice either as acceptance or rejection) ... why would we expect anything better than Zeus?  Well if we were a dirty old Greek man of ancient times ... I guess Zeus would have to do, though Apollo and Dionysus have their fans.  Or if you love animals like I do ... the Egyptian version is interesting.  Thoth of the Ibis head ... inventor of writing ... my kind of animorph!

I certainly don't equate small sins and big sins in my thinking, but then I am a monkey king like Hanuman ... it's all bananas to me ;-)

Termin ... well I might be telescoping and confabulating a bit ... trying to bridge different visions of "genius" vs modern cultural norms.  We aren't really the same as ancient Romans ... though we keep trying.  The Romans had many minor gods, thousands of them ... and were totally superstitious.  Did you ever see any of the excellent Rome series from HBO?  The characters in the story (based on historical individuals) engaged in all sorts of bizarre pagan stuff, like being drenched in bull blood and writing damning curses on lead tablets.  So yeah, I think the Romans were very much into placating, manipulating and profiting from their gods.  Haruspices weren't free, you know?  Caesar paid for going budget on his omen readings ;-)

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Thinking of minor gods I wonder if there's a god of moving. . I fucking hate moving so I must be in some moving purgatory..

[Munch]

Thinking of minor gods I wonder if there's a god of moving. . I fucking hate moving so I must be in some moving purgatory..

Well there is Hestia, the Greek goddess of hearth, so she might be worth giving a text.

[Baruch]

Mercury (Hermes) was a god of gamblers, thieves and travelers.  That last one might count as a god of moving.  But Hestia is a good choice too ... Vesta is the Latin equivalent.

[Unbeliever]

Do consider that hell can just mean that you are separated from god...

Not according to Psalm 139:7-8

Psalm 139:7-8 "Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."

How could anyone ever be separated from an omnipresent being?

[Ace101]

"God doesn't send you to hell, you send yourself there!"

It's just a logical fallacy.

"If I shoot you while demanding your wallet at gunpoint, I didn't kill you - you killed yourself by refusing to hand me your wallet".

[Baruch]

The thief example ... the thief is operating a government without a license.  The intimidation and theft are not ... bad things by themselves ... it depends on who is doing it.  The quote ... is exactly what a cop would tell a perp.  Is the cop being illogical?

[Termin]

 St. Anne, Patron Saint of moving house.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Anne#Patronage

[peacewithoutgod]

Right, you put yourself in their hell. Can't imagine how you manage to do that, being it is the product of dark and twisted Christian fantasy, when you aren't even a believer in that crap. You're the one who's in a hell, and oh what a shame that is, when you could have been like they are! Just look how happy Xtian families are, their so happy and still they need to make others believe they are miserable without believing their nonsense. Mother is meek and subservient to her husband who neglects her emotionally and sexually, Father wishes he married a smarter woman after spending a decade destroying her self-esteem with his misogynistic disregard for her intelligence, dignity, and concerns. Little Johnnie, who could be playing with his lab set or reading better books than the bible in church several times per week, squirms miserably with bordom and frustration as his childhood ticks away into oblivion, with him sitting next to his parents, learning nothing that will help him in life outside of his cultural bubble. Don't you just wish you could be happy like they are? Fortunately Christians are loving too, enough that they will help you to become happy like they are (whether you wish it or not, for they know what's best for all).

Yeah...

[widdershins]

This is also one of my pet peeves about Christianity as it is absolutely not true.  Ask any Christian if it is possible to live a life completely without sin.  The answer is always a resounding "no".  We're born with the sin of the world's first asshole, for some reason.  You go to Hell for not asking God to forgive you for your sins, though.  Essentially I have to beg forgiveness for not doing the impossible.  I'm pretty sure saying, "I told him I wouldn't shoot him if he just gave me all his money.  It's his own fault he's dead" would not be a very good defense at a murder trial, even though, inexplicably, having too much money growing up is.

[Baruch]

Calvinists take this one step further ... that there are people, the Elect, who are sinless.  And only they should be in Church, as everyone else is going to Hell no matter what they do.  The more moderate extremist says that the Elect aren't sinless, but that in spite of their sins, they are arbitrarily saved anyway.  As there are others with sins, who are arbitrarily not saved.  Since I reject this whole model ... I think that people aren't sinless, and that none of them are saved ... either thru works or thru faith (another dispute for another time).  It seems we are put here, because G-d is ... a tyrant.

[GSOgymrat]

Calvinists take this one step further ... that there are people, the Elect, who are sinless.  And only they should be in Church, as everyone else is going to Hell no matter what they do.  The more moderate extremist says that the Elect aren't sinless, but that in spite of their sins, they are arbitrarily saved anyway.  As there are others with sins, who are arbitrarily not saved.  Since I reject this whole model ... I think that people aren't sinless, and that none of them are saved ... either thru works or thru faith (another dispute for another time).  It seems we are put here, because G-d is ... a tyrant.

Are there supposed to be a specified number of Jews in heaven? A coworker once told me "When I get to heaven (she didn't say if) there ain't gonna be Baptists over here and Methodists over there and Presbyterians over there. There's only gonna be ONE group and that's the people in my church (Southern Pentecostal Holiness), oh and some Jews 'cause the Bible said so." Granted she wasn't a theologian but she seemed very convinced that is the way it's going down.

[Baruch]

This is why the Catholic Church didn't want lay people to read the Bible ;-)

In the original versions of Abrahamic heaven, developed in Judaism, there is only one Heaven, but Hell is just the ghetto portion reserved for low-lifes ;-)  Everyone gets to Heaven ... but the Jewish neighborhood is the best neighborhood ;-)  It was Christianity, that took the basic idea, added pagan Hades to it, and created the Hell most people think of today.  Gnosticism in the early Church and Zoroastrianism too ... created a more bipolar version that the Jewish one.  Islam inherited this version from the Christians, though closer to the Zoroastrian version.

The other confusion has to do with the 144,000 martyred Jews mentioned in Revelation ... but I won't bother to expound on that mess ... though it is crucial for Jehovah's Witnesses ... whose members imagine that a subset of their cult, are those 144,000.

[jonb]

https://youtu.be/MV5w262XvCU