Rate the latest movie you've seen.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Its a good movie, Sigourney Weaver sold it and the sequel for me, which when to watch them both are two very different types of horror, one being suspenseful and tense, the second being action based violence and gore.

Ripley will always stand to me as how you write/act as a strong female protagonist. You go on a journey with her and the shit she goes through and how that changes her.

Kill, kill, kill, kill...

[Munch]

Kill, kill, kill, kill...

your right yes, ripley did indeed kill those aliens, very satisfying.

[the_antithesis]

The term comes from Millennial movie critics.

Who is "Mary Sue"?

"Mary Sue" is taken from the 1973 Star Trek fan Fiction "A Trekker's Tale" by Paula Smith which was written as a criticism of fan fiction which tend to introduce new characters into the cannon that tend to be:

A) obvious author self-insert fantasy wish fulfillment
B) inexplicable more skilled/powerful/good looking/etc than the existing franchise characters
C) well-liked, even loved and/or romantically engaging to the existing characters
D) tend to die saving everybody or something so that the existing characters can all cry about this great guy/gal being dead.
E) Any combination of the above.

I recommend reading the original story. It's fucking short. It was written by the editor of the fanzine who got sick of terrible submissions that tended to go basically like the parody she'd written.

These days, the term gets thrown around a bit more loosely, one could argue incorrectly. Usually with some kind of half-assed political agenda behind it. Like calling Rei from the new Star Wars movies a Mary Sue. I'm not sure about that. (What I am sure is I really do not care about Star Wars or anything in it anymore, but I digress)

I think this misuse of the Mary Sue term not only ruins a perfectly good criticism shorthand term, but is due to poor communication skills. Lately there's been a lot of "girl power" shit, like the Ghostbusters reboot, where women are coming into space that typically had only or mostly boys. There is something to be said for that. But there is also something to be said for male bonding and men having spaces and activities where women aren't involved. But these chuckleheads aren't very good at expressing this in a way that can be understood, much less sympathized with. So it get label toxic masculinity or something.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

your right yes, ripley did indeed kill those aliens, very satisfying.

I think I see the problem here.

[Blackleaf]

Mary Sue is the new term for a fictional super hero of feminist persuasion, who doesn't have to make any serious effort to use the superpowers provided.  Star Trek A New Hope, the lead character isn't part of the Skywalker dynasty, and can beat Kilo Ren on first attempt.  The new Captain Marvel is more of the same ... though the powers in this case are off the chart.  The character did have to train to get some of them.  It is the infinite level of power (will be able to defeat Thanos with out any Infinity Stones) that makes her uninteresting.  The training arc is an opportunity to develop a hero's character, but a road not taken with a Mary Sue.

As antithesis pointed out, that's not the correct definition of "Mary Sue." If you recall, even Luke Skywalker didn't finish his training in the original movies, but he was able to fight Darth Vader, who had centuries* of training and combat experience. Unlike Vader, Kylo Ren was a novice, and had to finish his training off-screen in Episode VIII. Additionally, Episode VIII explains (poorly, but it's there) that Rey rose to power via the Force in order to counterbalance Kylo Ren. See, the Force actually has three sides, not two. Light, Dark, and Balance. The Balance side of the Force attempts to bring the other sides into equilibrium. If one side gets too powerful, it builds up another. In the prequel trilogy, the Jedi had complete dominance over the Force, so the Force created Anakin to destroy them from the inside. In the original trilogy, the Sith had complete control, so the Force built up Luke Skywalker to destroy the Sith. Now that the Sith, or whatever you call these new evil Force users, have returned, the Force needs a Light side champion. As a result, Rey, some nobody on a desert planet, was given greater potential than a normal Jedi.

Ironically, Luke Skywalker is kind of to blame for the problems of the new trilogy. If he hadn't started a Jedi academy, both the Jedi and the Sith might have gone extinct, equal in their nonexistence. But because he built up warriors on the Light side, the Dark had to rise again to bring balance, and so the cycle continues. I think that's what Luke realized when he said it was "time for the Jedi to end."

Edit: Decades, not centuries. Doh.

[Hydra009]

"Mary Sue" is taken from the 1973 Star Trek fan Fiction "A Trekker's Tale" by Paula Smith which was written as a criticism of fan fiction which tend to introduce new characters into the cannon that tend to be:

A) obvious author self-insert fantasy wish fulfillment
B) inexplicable more skilled/powerful/good looking/etc than the existing franchise characters
C) well-liked, even loved and/or romantically engaging to the existing characters
D) tend to die saving everybody or something so that the existing characters can all cry about this great guy/gal being dead.
E) Any combination of the above.

Exactly.  My rule of thumb is that Mary Sue characters are supercompetent - they're good at everything with all sorts of strengths and no real weaknesses.  They can outcommand Picard, outthink Data, outfight Worf, etc.  Most decently-written characters aren't like that - they have a certain range of expertise but they also have limitations and a few character flaws.

If you're looking at a character and there's no situation they can't handle, you're likely looking at a Mary Sue.

[Shiranu]

See, the Force actually has three sides, not two. Light, Dark, and Balance. The Balance side of the Force attempts to bring the other sides into equilibrium. If one side gets too powerful, it builds up another.

I'm about to go all old-school Christian schism-era here and argue that "balance" is not a third side but instead rather the system itself that both operate in, the philosophical catalyst for their being good and evil, Light and Dark... for without a system known as "balance" there would be no concept of "imbalance".

Thus balance cannot exist without imbalance, and vice versa. So if balance is the third side, imbalance must be a fourth... and thus as scales must stay even to stay in-between light and dark... so if the force becomes "too balanced" or "too imbalanced", it inherently imbalances the force.

This is why I am invited to parties.

[Blackleaf]

I'm about to go all old-school Christian schism-era here and argue that "balance" is not a third side but instead rather the system itself that both operate in, the philosophical catalyst for their being good and evil, Light and Dark... for without a system known as "balance" there would be no concept of "imbalance".

Thus balance cannot exist without imbalance, and vice versa. So if balance is the third side, imbalance must be a fourth... and thus as scales must stay even to stay in-between light and dark... so if the force becomes "too balanced" or "too imbalanced", it inherently imbalances the force.

This is why I am invited to parties.

Well, there are actually Force gods now. It's kind of confusing, since it seems like they used to be powerful users of the Force, and now they seem to represent the Force itself. But these three beings, called the Ones, are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Sp--I mean the Daughter. The Daughter represents the Light Side, the Son the Dark Side, and the Father above them is the balance. There is no god of imbalance in the Force.

In the Extended Universe, which is no longer canon, there was a group of Force users who were neutral. Using both the Light and the Dark sides, they were known as Gray Jedi. I was kinda expecting Episode VIII to have Rey and Kylo Ren come together to form the Gray Jedi, and it seemed like Kylo Ren wanted that. But of course, Rey couldn't abandon her principals or her friends, so she refused Kylo Ren's offer. If they had become Gray Jedi, the balance would have been satisfied without any more conflict.

[Shiranu]

The Daughter represents the Light Side, the Son the Dark Side, and the Father above them is the balance. There is no god of imbalance in the Force.

Ah, but therein lies the very on-the-nose comparison to the early Christian schisms... the council of Nicaea of 300-something was convened exactly for this exact argument... is the Holy Trinity one divine entity, or are they each completely separate entities (or even if some are more important than the others). This is where the Nicene Creed (which is still practiced) originated; a declaration that what would be the "United" Catholic Church was legitimate and the Eastern Orthodox view point was heresy.

They were essentially arguing of balance (god) was part of the trinity or existed on a higher plain to the other two of the trinity. People literally were tortured, martyred and killed nearly 2000 years ago over the exact same argument we are now casually having on a global social media platform.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Given that the balance point is an infinitesimal  point between two sides I don't buy it as being an entity.

[Sal1981]

Glass - 9/10

M. Night Shyamalan last (maybe there'll be spin-offs, who knows) movie in the trilogy about superhumans in a more "common" theme instead of the hyped and flashy venues of D.C. and Marvel. Quite good and as always, there's a twist in the end, true to Shyamalan's style.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Peter Jackson's "Morgul Engines". Pretty. 5/10

[Munch]

#


yeah, does make a lot of sense now..

[Unbeliever]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEUlnLOQG8k

[Shiranu]

Dumbo is one of those stories that, if it had died off 80-years ago, not much of value would have been lost. The need to extend it's life even longer is completely baffling to me... but you do you, Disney.