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White guilt.

Started by pr126, June 21, 2015, 02:05:12 AM

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TomFoolery

Quote from: Mermaid on June 21, 2015, 12:54:41 PM
I'll also tackle white privilege. When you grow up white, more doors are open to you from the beginning, dictating your path in life. You take those doors for granted because you don't know any different. They're just open.

You assume that people of other races have those same doors open for them because, again, you don't know any different.

It took me a long time to realize this, but I find it true.

I think the notion that I should either literally or figuratively spend the majority of my free time wailing and gnashing my teeth over white guilt and emotionally flagellating myself over what white people have done to those of any color, I just can't. That won't make things right. It won't make inner city schools better or our justice system more fair.

As for having actual feelings of "guilt" over the way life turned out for me based on my skin color, I didn't ask for it. I didn't be ask to be born in a modernized, Western country either instead of Southern Sudan. I didn't ask to be born human and not a chicken on a poultry farm. Guilt and privilege are relative. Healing only works if it moves forward rather than dwelling on the past, as long as we don't forget the past and understand why we need to heal in the first place.
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

aitm

Quote from: TomFoolery on June 21, 2015, 01:40:23 PM
gnashing my teeth……….  flagellating myself

Since the very first time I read, "gnashing of the teeth" in the babble, I have loved that term and flagellating is a word that should be an automatic 100 internet points but "flagellating myself" just makes me laugh too hard.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

TomFoolery

Quote from: aitm on June 21, 2015, 02:21:28 PM
Since the very first time I read, "gnashing of the teeth" in the babble, I have loved that term and flagellating is a word that should be an automatic 100 internet points but "flagellating myself" just makes me laugh too hard.

It does require careful application but in rare instance can be wildly appropriate, especially because there's always a handful of people that think you're talking about farting. :)
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Mermaid

Quote from: TomFoolery on June 21, 2015, 01:40:23 PM
It took me a long time to realize this, but I find it true.

I think the notion that I should either literally or figuratively spend the majority of my free time wailing and gnashing my teeth over white guilt and emotionally flagellating myself over what white people have done to those of any color, I just can't. That won't make things right. It won't make inner city schools better or our justice system more fair.

As for having actual feelings of "guilt" over the way life turned out for me based on my skin color, I didn't ask for it. I didn't be ask to be born in a modernized, Western country either instead of Southern Sudan. I didn't ask to be born human and not a chicken on a poultry farm. Guilt and privilege are relative. Healing only works if it moves forward rather than dwelling on the past, as long as we don't forget the past and understand why we need to heal in the first place.

I agree, there's nothing productive about open display of guilt. What is productive is acknowledging the root of the issue and embracing it. People get so defensive that this can only happen with generations. At least that's the way I see it.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

Mermaid

Quote from: aitm on June 21, 2015, 02:21:28 PM
Since the very first time I read, "gnashing of the teeth" in the babble, I have loved that term and flagellating is a word that should be an automatic 100 internet points but "flagellating myself" just makes me laugh too hard.
It's very rude to do in public.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

Solitary

Just think how guilty I feel being part White, Cherokee, Choctaw, after what the whites did to them. But I was saved as a young boy by becoming a blood brother of the Cherokee Nation and don't like Choctaws now----just kidding----I'm white privileged and don't like any colored people----sorry! Couldn't resist the irony of thinking I was white privileged. Bigotry is crazy period, I like almost everyone that is female.  :biggrin2:
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

aitm

Quote from: Solitary on June 21, 2015, 03:08:09 PM
Just think how guilty I feel being part White, Cherokee, Choctaw, after what the whites did to them. But I was saved as a young boy by becoming a blood brother of the Cherokee Nation and don't like Choctaws now----

*Singing a song* can you guess which one?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

PickelledEggs

Quote from: Shiranu on June 21, 2015, 03:35:02 AM
In simplest terms, it's the fact that you can do drugs at a similar or higher rate than blacks, yet make up a much smaller percentage of the jail population. Or walk around a neighbourhood at night and not have an idiot with a gun follow you because you look like a thug. Or assumed you are a terrorist just because your skin is brown and you wear a turban (and thus have a temple of yours shot up). And so on and so forth...

GSOgymrat

In order to feel guilt or pride I need to feel responsible. I don't feel responsible for the actions of my ancestors, or typically the actions of others, therefore it doesn't matter to me whether my ancestors were heroes or villains. I can't be responsible for the actions of people who died before I was born. People like Ali Michael have stronger feelings of group affiliation and identity and therefore experience associated guilt for the actions of their white ancestors, just as people of Irish heritage who march in St Patrick's day parades experience pride.

I certainly recognize that I have advantages due to being white and male but I didn't create, or feel responsible for, these biases. I am only responsible for perpetuating them. I strive to treat others with the way I would like to be treated and support efforts to make the world more fair. When I fail to do so is when I feel guilt.

GrinningYMIR




All i'll say is I'm a white guy who is automatically assumed racist by people around me and called the devil for what my race did, add more to it that I'm an atheist and I get called the worst person ever! I have no white guilt, I simply exist.
"Human history is a litany of blood shed over differing ideals of rulership and afterlife"<br /><br />Governor of the 32nd Province of the New Lunar Republic. Luna Nobis Custodit

Mike Cl

Quote from: GrinningYMIR on June 22, 2015, 10:59:21 AM



All i'll say is I'm a white guy who is automatically assumed racist by people around me and called the devil for what my race did, add more to it that I'm an atheist and I get called the worst person ever! I have no white guilt, I simply exist.
Damn, where the hell do you work????
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Shiranu

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 22, 2015, 12:00:55 PM
Damn, where the hell do you work????

This... I have never had anyone assume I am racist because of the colour of my skin ( other than actual white people who think I am one of them) or put me down for being an atheist. And I live in the centre of Texas...
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

PickelledEggs

I work with this tall white guy that is really racist... he lived in Georgia for a while when he was going to college and said everyone there was racist, so I guess it rubbed off on to him.

He's like a big tall and fat racist giraffe.

Atheon

Quote from: TomFoolery on June 21, 2015, 01:40:23 PM
It took me a long time to realize this, but I find it true.

I think the notion that I should either literally or figuratively spend the majority of my free time wailing and gnashing my teeth over white guilt and emotionally flagellating myself over what white people have done to those of any color, I just can't. That won't make things right. It won't make inner city schools better or our justice system more fair.

As for having actual feelings of "guilt" over the way life turned out for me based on my skin color, I didn't ask for it. I didn't be ask to be born in a modernized, Western country either instead of Southern Sudan. I didn't ask to be born human and not a chicken on a poultry farm. Guilt and privilege are relative. Healing only works if it moves forward rather than dwelling on the past, as long as we don't forget the past and understand why we need to heal in the first place.
Having grown up in multi-ethnic communities, I have long recognized the idea of white privilege (though I didn't have a word for it for most of that time). It was just self-evident that white people have an advantage in our society. I have also witnessed police brutality against minorities when similar situations would not have not occurred had the people in question been white.

However, I do not have "white guilt". I just happen to be white; its not something I can control. For all of my politically conscious life, I have supported and fought for the idea of racial equality.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

the_antithesis

This is why I side with Senator Bullworth. We all have to fuck each other so much that we can't tell what color anybody is.