A PhD in Theology? How Is This Possible?

[Mike Cl]

I have listened to several Philosophers over the years whose views are just as batty as religion, so they can be sisters of woo.

Woo Hoo....................

[Mike Cl]

Yeah, but he's a southern Baptist, a very devout and outspoken Christian.

Oh--wow!  I see your point.  And I think for you a key is 'former boss'.  That is a head scratcher.

[Mermaid]

Oh--wow!  I see your point.  And I think for you a key is 'former boss'.  That is a head scratcher.

It is. And not only that, he's a respected scientist in our field worldwide. I guess everyone has a certain ability to compartmentalize. His just may be very well developed. He's an interesting guy. And yeah, that's part of the reason he's my former boss, I think, in retrospect.

[Unbeliever]

Is a Doctorate Degree in Theology really valid?

A PhD degree in any field implies an individual's exemplary understanding of the study given to a particular field of science.

With the exception of Theology. [insert sad trombone sound here]

So then, why must we make this awkward exception to a field of study which is clearly outside the realm of physical science (even to believers)?

Why don't real PhD's object to this?

That's a good question, I wonder if there are any PHDs here who could help answer it?

Theology is a subject with no real content at all:

"Theology is a thing of unreason altogether, an edifice of assumptions and dreams, a superstition without a substructure."
Ambrose Bierce

"Theology is but the ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system...[It] is a science that has for its objects only things incomprehensible."
Paul Heinrich Dietrich d'Holbach, Good sense (1772)

"Wandering in a vast forrest at night, I have only a faint light to guide me. A stranger appears and says to me: 'My friend, you should blow out your candle in order to find your way more clearly.' This stranger is a theologian."
Dennis Diderot

[Mike Cl]

That's a good question, I wonder if there are any PHDs here who could help answer it?

Theology is a subject with no real content at all:

"Theology is a thing of unreason altogether, an edifice of assumptions and dreams, a superstition without a substructure."
Ambrose Bierce

"Theology is but the ignorance of natural causes reduced to a system...[It] is a science that has for its objects only things incomprehensible."
Paul Heinrich Dietrich d'Holbach, Good sense (1772)

"Wandering in a vast forrest at night, I have only a faint light to guide me. A stranger appears and says to me: 'My friend, you should blow out your candle in order to find your way more clearly.' This stranger is a theologian."
Dennis Diderot

Loved the quotes.
But I do think the only thing a PhD or Theology would denote would be mastery of the subject.  Which I think of as the hierarchy and structure of religions.  How they arise and why.  One could be an expert in that sort of thing, I think.  No matter how much we dislike theology, it has done a huge amount of damage--one needs to study the how and why of that. 

And if one really wants to get such a degree, look up the Universal Life Church based in Modesto, CA.  Last I looked a PhD would run you $25 or so.  Yeah, it's real--my wife has a minister's licence thru them and she performed a legal marriage ceremony last weekend--she married her nephew and his bride.  Fun was had by all!

[Mermaid]

A Ph.D. is not always in science. It means a particular mastery of one very focused topic, which could be in something like puppetry (yes, this degree exists).

[Baruch]

On that boss .. compartmentalize or ambidextrous?  Personally, I am omnivorous.

Theology is the application of logic to the irrational.  Religious argumentation is inevitably circular.  This is why in Islam they rejected theology in favor of practice.  This is also partly true of Eastern Orthodox Christianity and rabbinic Judaism.  The question in practice is do you limit yourself to the worldly, or do you get other-worldly (mystical)?  Only in Western Christianity was the grip of Greco-Roman philosophy strong enough to recover ... mostly thanks to Jewish and Arabic translators. 

Intellectuals are suspect even in secularism.  Mystics and theologians are suspect for the same reason, in religion.  This is why the concept of "faith" has come to dominate popular religious dialog ... anything else would be intellectual of one sort or another.  Lowest common denominator.  The rabbinic Jewish view is that you achieve belief thru practice, not practice thru belief.  If you are an atheist, and you don't actually practice logic, maths or science ... how different are you from a religious lay person?  I would say lay folks are united in their opposition to intellectualism.  This is why, at one point, it was considered a sin to be able to read or write.

PS - real PhDs do object to this ... there is a current controversy about removing the remaining religious departments from secular state-related colleges, and exile them completely to seminaries.  This is the end point of a long history, which started 100 years ago with the clergy and religious departments dominant in most universities.  But then you might as well exile English majors.  But I am not even sure of Accounting or Business departments.  Dr Hawking would like to exile Philosophy departments as well.  Isn't everything except String Theory just another example of Phlogiston?  (that's a rhetorical question, to understand that you need some humanities).

I like most quotes by Ambrose Bierce ... my opening paragraph mirrors it.  I don't have a PhD, but then I never needed one.  Does liking Ambrose Bierce and Voltaire count?  There is going to be a new endowed chair at Cambridge, for a Lego Professor ... funded by the Lego company.  It is for early childhood development research.

[SkyChief]

Well, specifically, it was WLC that inspired me to ponder the validity of a Doctorate in Theology.  That guy sure makes some boneheaded assertions. Its one thing when someone like Ray Comfort exposes what a ducking fummy he really is, but its another thing when someone who holds a PhD (WLC) does that. 

And when WLC makes patently false assertions like "an atheist must have faith to believe that the universe came from nothing" . He knows damn well this is a false statement. So, then, why would he even SAY it?  Because he knows how gullible and delusional most Christians are, and he shamelessly exploits it! And he's quite proud of this moral bankruptcy. And then he has the gall to ridicule atheist for not believing in gods because atheist want to be immoral.

I would concede that in some circumstances, theology could be a legitimate field of academic study. But by the very nature of the study, any publications (books, papers, essays, etc) cannot properly be peer-reviewed or cited because how could any theologian's interpretation of scripture ever be contested? A thousand different Theology PhDs will interpret the bible a thousand different ways. And not one of them will be able to challenge the assertions by the other 999.

This makes the Philosophy Doctorate playing field a bit tilted. It seemingly devalues a PhD degree held by people that actually deserve it. There should be a global rule concerning PhDs;  If ya gonna say stupid shit, ya gotta surrender your PhD.  No exceptions.

[PickelledEggs]

Anything is possible if you believe.

[Sargon The Grape]

Anything is possible if you believe.

Except healing amputees.

[Baruch]

Biology and medicine happen, because people believe in them.  Though with more justification than theology, because they have harder empirical content.  Did you see the report on cloning the limb of a mouse?  So yes, this solution for amputees is coming, some day.  Yes, "believe" has more than one nuance, and I am using a different one.

As far as PhD pollution goes ... when someone speaks outside of their domain of expertise, as an expert ... like Hawking does sometimes ... then they usually do look like idiots.  As far as a theist interpreting belief in the Big Bang goes ... most people don't know what they are talking about when discussing cosmology ... including most physicists.  Most people's assertions (if not beliefs) are on shaky grounds, for that very reason ... they aren't experts, or they are committing the fallacy of authority.

[Mike Cl]

Anything is possible if you believe.

I believe you are right! :)

[Baruch]

Chicken or egg first?  Some believe so that they can see, others see so that they can believe.  But believing first (say that a skyscraper can be built) requires that it be feasible under current conditions.  Dream ... but not too much.  But if you don't dream ... then you can do nothing new.

[trdsf]

Chicken or egg first?

Egg.  Came out of something that was almost, but not quite, a chicken, and was a mutation therefrom.  :)

[SkyChief]

As far as PhD pollution goes ... when someone speaks outside of their domain of expertise, as an expert ... like Hawking does sometimes ... then they usually do look like idiots.

Thank you.

This is basically the essence of what I was trying to convey. Although, i admit that Hawking has a clear distinction of not coming across as an idiot;  even when discussing topics outside the realm of his expertise.