Dr. Ruth: being naked with a man is like playing in traffic.

Started by Valigarmander, June 10, 2015, 05:16:06 PM

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Hijiri Byakuren

Upon reflection I'm retracting what I said in this post. Now, to the stuff I want to address...

Quote from: aitm on June 15, 2015, 01:56:33 PMThe only protector of your body is you. Nobody else is looking out for your welfare.
Yup, it's a dog-eat-dog world. Better not get stolen from, beaten, raped, or murdered, because no one is gonna step in and save you from that shit.

If that wasn't your point, you should consider rephrasing it, because that's what I took away from your statement.

Quote from: aitm on June 15, 2015, 01:56:33 PMMaybe it is my idea of personal responsibility that you seem to have an issue with. If I fuck a gal and don't use a condom or if she is not on the pill, I am 100% responsible if she gets pregnant or if I get STD's. I am the sole protector of my body. If a gal lets a guy fuck her without a condom or she is not on the pill, she is 100% responsible if she gets pregnant or if she gets an STD. She is the sole protector of her body.
No. If there is no mutual consent to go raw, contraception is the default assumption. If you withhold vital information such as what STDs you have, that's not only a form of rape, it's criminal transmission and you can be listed as a registered sex offender in addition to fines and jail time. You cannot impose conditions on another person's body without their consent. This is why doctors have you sign waivers before they treat you, and it's why both partners must agree to have baby-making sex. Yes, you should be mindful of your own body and take steps to avoid these situations, but when push comes to shove it is not your responsibility to prevent someone from sexually assaulting you: the culprit in question shouldn't be doing it in the first place!

Quote from: aitm on June 15, 2015, 01:56:33 PMI have been using this as my main defense for womens rights for 40 years.
If this is a defense of women's rights, I hope you are never allowed to touch another woman in your life. Apparently, you think that if you force yourself upon a woman, its her fault for not pushing you off. Hey buddy, Islam's calling, they want their misogyny playbook back.

Quote from: aitm on June 15, 2015, 01:56:33 PMAnd because of that, if you do stupid shit and stupid shit happens quit fucking blaming other people for your stupidity. Pull a knife out of the sheathing to see if its sharp? It's sharp you moron, why are you suing? Walk across the road without looking, get ready to get slamed, oh sure they are wrong but that's a fine blanket to lay on your casket you fucking idiot! Get out of the drivers seat of a motor home because the fucking button says "automatic control"? Of course you crashed you fucking moron. Climb into bed and start fucking some guy? Guess what? Good chance you're fucked.
"Guy chooses not to pull out or wear a condom? Tough shit, bitch, now raise my baby."

Do you read your own writing before you post? I thought I was reading something by a hardcore Saudi Muslim, not an educated atheist who should know better.
Black lives matter, feminism is good, religion is bullshit, and if you disagree with me on any of these points you are a fucking moron.<br /><br />Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

aitm

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 16, 2015, 06:24:03 PM
stuff he said
yeah, I get it, don't worry, everybody else will take care of you. Nobody ever disobeys the law. Everybody tells the truth. Nobody ever lies. It takes a village..rah rah..sis boom bah!!

Well good for you. No thanks, I want my kids to be aware that the world does not look out for them, that it is up to them to protect themselves. You can teach your kids that guys always tell the truth, they will stop when you ask them to, they will wear protection because after all, yer just a stupid fucking girl, let the man take care of everything.

No thanks.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 07:14:42 PM
yeah, I get it, don't worry, everybody else will take care of you. Nobody ever disobeys the law. Everybody tells the truth. Nobody ever lies. It takes a village..rah rah..sis boom bah!!

Well good for you. No thanks, I want my kids to be aware that the world does not look out for them, that it is up to them to protect themselves. You can teach your kids that guys always tell the truth, they will stop when you ask them to, they will wear protection because after all, yer just a stupid fucking girl, let the man take care of everything.

No thanks.
*ahem*

"Yes, you should be mindful of your own body and take steps to avoid these situations, but when push comes to shove it is not your responsibility to prevent someone from sexually assaulting you."

So you don't read the shit you write, you don't read the shit other people write... aitm, do you, in fact, know how to read? Honest question.
Black lives matter, feminism is good, religion is bullshit, and if you disagree with me on any of these points you are a fucking moron.<br /><br />Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

aitm

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 16, 2015, 07:49:14 PM
but when push comes to shove it is not your responsibility to prevent someone from sexually assaulting you."[/i]

It's your responsibility to use reasonable  common sense! Are you kidding me?

This conversation has been pretty much about two people already having sex and one person objecting at "some" time and then proclaiming it is rape.  That has been the conversation. This is not about some guy walking up to you and batting you upside the head and raping you. This is about someone you willingly invited in to have sex, engaged in it, pretty much passed the whole intent of assault so far.. oh hell, this is already the seventh time I have said the same thing

You want the court to send him to prison for 20 years?  Not going to happen. And most people apparently agree.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 08:35:18 PMYou want the court to send him to prison for 20 years?  Not going to happen. And most people apparently agree.
I absolutely agree, but that's not what you said. You said it's a woman's fault if she gets rape. That's what "The only protector of your body is you. Nobody else is looking out for your welfare." means.

QuoteThis is about someone you willingly invited in to have sex, engaged in it,
And then if you need to stop for some reason it's perfectly fine for the other person to just keep going, according to you, reasons be damned. Assuming we're still talking only about women, what if she's hurt, hmm? What if something going on during sex is physically painful and she really needs her partner to stop? What if something urgent happens, like the phone starts ringing and the caller ID says its a relative who rarely calls you unless it's an emergency?

There are a whole host of reasons why a woman might need to withdraw consent in the middle of sex, and regardless of what you might think about some of those reasons, the same rules must apply in every situation. When consent has been withdrawn, continuing is a crime. Period, end of story.
Black lives matter, feminism is good, religion is bullshit, and if you disagree with me on any of these points you are a fucking moron.<br /><br />Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

aitm

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 16, 2015, 08:42:24 PM
I absolutely agree, but that's not what you said. You said it's a woman's fault if she gets rape.
Bullshit! Show me one time where I actually exactly said that! Exactly that! Not what you "think" you think I meant.

QuoteThat's what "The only protector of your body is you. Nobody else is looking out for your welfare." means.
Bullshit! It means you are the only protector of your body. Nobody else is looking out for your welfare. You're accusing me of not reading?


QuoteAnd then if you need to stop for some reason it's perfectly fine for the other person to just keep going, according to you, reasons be damned.
Bullshit! Post the sentence where I said exactly that! Exactly that! Not what you "think" you think I meant.


QuoteWhen consent has been withdrawn, continuing is a crime.
show me an exact sentence where I said it was not a crime. I said I can't call it rape!


A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:07:47 PMBullshit! Show me one time where I actually exactly said that! Exactly that! Not what you "think" you think I meant.
That was the take-away. If that was not the intended take-away, rephrase your sentence.

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:07:47 PMBullshit! It means you are the only protector of your body. Nobody else is looking out for your welfare. You're accusing me of not reading?
This is pretty much the same logic used by Shariah Law apologists. Again, if this was not the intended take-away, rephrase your sentence. I'm giving you a very clear way to make me understand your intent here. If you refuse to help me understand, I can only conclude that you do, in fact, fully support the right of a man to fuck women without their consent.

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:07:47 PMBullshit! Post the sentence where I said exactly that! Exactly that! Not what you "think" you think I meant.
"You are the only protector of your body." So if a man rapes a woman, the woman is at fault for not protecting herself. Victim blaming, in other words. Just because you used different language doesn't change the meaning.

"But I didn't post the exact words!" Yeah, and I didn't explicitly say that you support rape, but you're accusing me of saying that anyway. Hmm...

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:07:47 PMshow me an exact sentence where I said it was not a crime. I said I can't call it rape!
Rape: unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.

I think you can call it rape. And rape, my friend, is a very serious crime. And denying that a rape is, in fact, a rape, is generally frowned upon in most societies.
Black lives matter, feminism is good, religion is bullshit, and if you disagree with me on any of these points you are a fucking moron.<br /><br />Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

aitm

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on June 16, 2015, 09:19:24 PM

Rape: unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.

"without consent of the victim"…..once the dick is in by consent, calling it non-consensual seems a tad ridiculous. After five minutes of consensual, calling it non-consensual is getting more difficult….going from that to rape in a couple seconds is a bit harder to do.

As to how you comprehend other peoples writings, I can't help you with that. I believe I have been extremely clear and obvious in every possible way. I don't see a need to review how I write when I have had no problems in the past with expressing my opinions. But I shall attempt to make them easier for others to understand once I understand the audience.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Hijiri Byakuren

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:34:25 PM"without consent of the victim"…..once the dick is in by consent, calling it non-consensual seems a tad ridiculous. After five minutes of consensual, calling it non-consensual is getting more difficult….going from that to rape in a couple seconds is a bit harder to do.
"Uh, dude, get off. No, seriously, I'm bleeding, get off." *continues anyway*

TOTALLY NOT RAPE THOUGH ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!11!1!!1!BBQ!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!121!!!!

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:34:25 PMAs to how you comprehend other peoples writings, I can't help you with that. I believe I have been extremely clear and obvious in every possible way. I don't see a need to review how I write when I have had no problems in the past with expressing my opinions. But I shall attempt to make them easier for others to understand once I understand the audience.
"I'm not bad at writing, everyone else is just stupid!"

Black lives matter, feminism is good, religion is bullshit, and if you disagree with me on any of these points you are a fucking moron.<br /><br />Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

aitm

Quote"I'm not bad at writing, everyone else is just stupid!"

Seems to be the case here.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Mike Cl

Quote from: aitm on June 17, 2015, 09:09:23 AM
Seems to be the case here.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Ha!  That picture reminds me of my home.  We have a 80 lb sheppard and a 12 lb chi/mix.  The Chi is the alpha and humps the sheppard all the time.  And takes toys from him all the time, too.  But they really do get along well.  Quite a sight, tho.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

TomFoolery

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:34:25 PM
"without consent of the victim"…..once the dick is in by consent, calling it non-consensual seems a tad ridiculous. After five minutes of consensual, calling it non-consensual is getting more difficult….

Only in the mind of a rapist.

If I go get a tattoo and change my mind partway through for any reason (maybe the artist isn't doing as good a job as I thought or maybe I just decided my friends were right and I don't want the entire cast of Looney Tunes printed on my chest) should the tattoo artist get to hold me down and say "Quit being a little bitch. I cleared the whole day for this so I'm going to finish."?
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

Aletheia

Quote from: aitm on June 16, 2015, 09:34:25 PM…..once the dick is in by consent, calling it non-consensual seems a tad ridiculous. After five minutes of consensual, calling it non-consensual is getting more difficult….going from that to rape in a couple seconds is a bit harder to do.

Consent in reference to sex means that both parties involved have to agree. The moment one party (regardless of reason) no longer agrees to have sex, then sex has become non-consensual - therefore a misunderstanding at best and rape at worst.

To put things more succinctly, during sex the woman is allowing the man to put the dick in for as long as she is willing to allow it. The same is true to say that a woman is allowed engulf a man's dick so long as he is willing allow it. Under no circumstances has ownership of the genitals been exchanged or a specific duration of time has been rented. The entire agreement is subject to "at-will" terms. 
Quote from: Jakenessif you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

Solitary

Quote from: Mike Cl on June 17, 2015, 09:26:16 AM
Ha!  That picture reminds me of my home.  We have a 80 lb sheppard and a 12 lb chi/mix.  The Chi is the alpha and humps the sheppard all the time.  And takes toys from him all the time, too.  But they really do get along well.  Quite a sight, tho.
That's funny because I have a little male Chihuahua, that keeps humping one that is big male, being half Chihuahua and Italian Greyhound, and they too get along well too.
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Solitary on June 17, 2015, 09:40:27 PM
That's funny because I have a little male Chihuahua, that keeps humping one that is big male, being half Chihuahua and Italian Greyhound, and they too get along well too.
Half Chi and half greyhound?  I have never seen one of those.  I bet that is a good looking dog!  My two are fixed males, too.  And both are rescue dogs, so we are not sure what the mixes really are--we think the big one is sheppard/border collie--he is mainly black with the sheppard rust showing through in places and his face is very wolf like--beautiful dog.  And the chi is a terrier mix of some sort--very smart and full of character--he likes to 'talk'.  Gotta say--love my furry children.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?