Elections in Turkey 7 June 2015 - Good News

[drunkenshoe]

Probably, it didn't make to the news in Europe or US, but Turkey had a very important elections yesterday.

The religious conservative party AKP (JDP), the first religious party that managed to come to the power by itself since the foundation of the country in 1923, lost its major power for the first time since 2003. They still have the most chairs, however they cannot establish the presidency system or be able to change the constitution into something religious now.

These elections are also historical, because for the first time a Kurdish party, HDP (PDP), got into the Parliement AND got 80 chairs, the same with the nationalist party.

Also now we have 96 women in the parliment (best we got so far, before it was around 70) and 3 Armenians are also in. There are also few Yezidi, one Assyrian and one for other local minority we call Romans. (I don't know how to define them in Eng.)   There is an uncertainty, there could be another elections soon, if they cannot agree on forming the government, however, whatever happens it is a great turn.

It's not just important because the Kurdish party had a good measure in the parliment. They recognise lgbt rights, they are anti-religious, anti-nationalist and anti-capitalist, socialist democratic party. They also recognise atrocities done to minorities in Ottoman period...etc. :)

I don't know what is going to happen and anything is possible, however with yesterday's elections, basically 60 % of the country said NO. Let's hope it will lead to their downfall for good. World doesn't look very dark, a religious parrty had a good defeat somewhere in the world. 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/jun/08/turkey-election-results-what-you-need-to-know

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-elections-president-recep-erdogans-party-keeps-control-but-loses-seats-in-turkish-vote-10303729.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkey-elections-deal-blow-erdogan-bring-coalition-uncertainty-n371456

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Well happy days are there again and a nice big happy fuck you to the Erdogoons! I'm glad for your nation Shoe.

[Atheon]

Nice! A shot over the bow for Erdowan!

The "Romans" are probably the Romany.

[drunkenshoe]

Nice! A shot over the bow for Erdowan!

The "Romans" are probably the Romany.

Oh yes, the Romany! :) Thank you. 

[stromboli]

Congrats, Shoe. I was going to post on this yesterday but I thought it would be better coming from you.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

You know Shoe, it's no small coincidence that this coincided with the video I sent you. .
https://youtu.be/w4GCWJ81HsI

[drunkenshoe]

Let's hope so, APA. Thanks. :)

[Atheon]

Here's some news about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkag3qybfKk

[eylul]

FREEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM haha its not enough but its a good start

[stromboli]

FREEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM haha its not enough but its a good start

Hopefully its an indication that Turkey is becoming more secular. And I root for the Kurds. Badass bunch of people.

[Shiranu]

Hopefully its an indication that Turkey is becoming more secular. And I root for the Kurds. Badass bunch of people.

On this;

Isn't the radicalism in Turkey a pretty new thing, Drunken? I know ALOT of Turks take Ataturk extremely seriously (and I feel that is a huge understatement on how revered he is), and that the radicals are viewed by alot of people as being just that; radical, and opposed to his policies.

From what I have seen from the outside looking in, the more conservative party (AKP) has only been in power since 2001-02, and has steadily lost seats every election... going from the upper 300s in 2002, 327 in 2011 and now they have fallen to 258 seats. I don't see Turkey as becoming more or less secular, but rather less right-wing and conservative as the people realised those policies just aren't in their best interest.

There is certainly an Islamic element to it, but I think it is blown way out of proportion by Western media, and that it really mirrors more our Republican vs Democrat (Religion plays a part, but for the majority of Republicans the main factor is greed) than a secular vs religious battle.

But again, that is outside looking in and also very simplified.

[drunkenshoe]

On this;

Isn't the radicalism in Turkey a pretty new thing, Drunken? I know ALOT of Turks take Ataturk extremely seriously (and I feel that is a huge understatement on how revered he is), and that the radicals are viewed by alot of people as being just that; radical, and opposed to his policies.

From what I have seen from the outside looking in, the more conservative party (AKP) has only been in power since 2001-02, and has steadily lost seats every election... going from the upper 300s in 2002, 327 in 2011 and now they have fallen to 258 seats. I don't see Turkey as becoming more or less secular, but rather less right-wing and conservative as the people realised those policies just aren't in their best interest.

There is certainly an Islamic element to it, but I think it is blown way out of proportion by Western media, and that it really mirrors more our Republican vs Democrat (Religion plays a part, but for the majority of Republicans the main factor is greed) than a secular vs religious battle.

But again, that is outside looking in and also very simplified.

Yes, it is Shiranu. I think that is almost impossible for most people here to get that, but I understand it. The main reason that it rose to this point -among many- is that the bad economy that went for a long time and the bad policies secular governments made. Because they have seen their existence as the City Hall itself. Like the republicans did in the US for a long time.

If headscarf has become a political symbol in Turkey today, it's not just doing of the religious class. It's also because of the old governemnet policies that banned the headscarves in universities, state employments. Seculars need to face that but they refuse to do it. They refuse to confront the reality that rising of the religious class is as much as the secular parties', the old governments' fault, exactly like most American people refusing to accept that global islamic terrorism is the fault of fucked up Amercian international policies. After the foundation of the secular republic, religious people has been looked down as second class citizens in Turkey. They have lived like that for a long time. And because of the constant economical turmoil, a working class that once has been secular and consciously left, gradually became religious and right wing.

Yes, AKP is the first religious party that came to power as a government. That happened in 2003 and the republic was founded in 1923. Once another religious party got in and joined a coalition long time ago. I think before I was born or just about that time. However had no influence. There are a few coups in history of republic and that is basically being torn between Soviet Russia and US, there was 'far left terrorism against the right wing'; which is bullshit in today's terms, many people died, several executed, but it was nothing fundamentalist. The last execution took place in 25th of October 1984. Then death penalty was 'stopped' in and fortunately we haven't had since, which was made legal in 2004. An important note though: almost all the religious parties were closed to prevent them to gain power. That's far from any democracy, even that it was 'needed'. If they made real policies for people, there wouldn't be any need for that. Also they closed Kurdish parties of course and same rules apply. Hence PKK. Anyway, 60s movements and the domestic terrorism was about trying to get out from American grasp against Russia. People didn't have the perception Americans have against socialism. Still it is not the boogeyman here. Sharia has always been the scary monster in Turkey and that what made Kemalist nationalism the other religion. Anyway, 1960s made a huge impact in the country. And the Turkish constitution in 60s was like paradise which was changed after the last coup in 1980 to the excuse of one we have now.

America 'won' in the end, country got opened to the world economically to fuck up worse, but it had to. And US supported the capitalist right wing full throttle and then supported AKP to come to the power, because they needed an Islamic party to use as a tool in the Middle East. Just the moment before AKP came to the power America got a big NO from the parliment to support for the Irak war and that cost a lot to the US army in money I guess. And they tried their chance with the religious party. What the US gov of the time couldn't get was the fact that ErdoÄŸan is a politician, not a religious leader. They didn't get that and still don't that there has already been a real beef between seculars and the religious for along time. Because their perception saw the country as a straight islamic one which they didn't care either way as long as its their dog, but the rub is seculars are the real ones that against the US policy before the religious. Whenever a country refuses to be used by Uncle Sam it has doomed to be declared and attacked anyway. So they do not have much choice. Country wasn't religious by then, it still isn't the way they US wanted. That took some time for them to realise, because like almost all the western perception and policies, they weren't aware much about the Middle East; islamic societies and the consequences of the diverse culture; that they are actually made of many nations, various ethnicities and opposite cultures -yes opposite- they handled it with an understanding of a Holywood movie stereotype. For example, most Islamic countries do not even see Turkey as a muslim country, but a westernised freak. Others want to be like Turkey, because they can't deal with what they have with poverty. Everyone in the area was ruled over by the Ottoman Empire for hundred of years, is it surprising that there is hatred? The founder of Republic of Turkey officially abolished the Caliphacy and the monarchy that handled it for hundreds of years. So, none of the islamic leaders saw ErdoÄŸan as someone from them, or someone with an agenda that could work for them and therefore he could not be used the way the US desired. I am sure he was used many ways, but if he gained the position he desired that's also a big no-no to the US too. And that2s bad for other countries too. They should be protected from him and his policies. His goal was/is to be a little America in the region; to forge an islamic empire inspired after the Ottomans. Hence, he wanted to establish presidency system and any kind of other policies and systems American politics make; fucking up the neigbourhood somewhere and bully people round, feeding sides against ecah other, feeding terrorist groups to fuck up at one side and dealing with the other and screaming out democracy. AKP follows and imitate a lot of what republicans do too.

But on being the less right wing, unfortunately I disagree. Yes, millions of people, Turks voted for the Kurdish Party, but they did it to stop the religious party. Because as I said, Sharia is the bogeyman here. Kurdish party knows the profile of voters, that they even thanked for the 'deposit' votes. The majority is still right wing in this way or another. Because first of all, the religious is nationalist by default, Nationalist party what it is (both fucking racists and fascists by my standards) and others, the seculars embraced the Kemalist nationalism and went far 'naturally' because they felt they are in danger and they still do. AKP radicalised every group in the country. Divided it with 'us and them' and pursued a policy that defined the religious as the 'poor victim' that has been treated badly since 1923 and anyone else is as nothing.

And many people believe HDP is the same thing with PKK which is defined as a terrorist group by full profile with its suicide bombers and guerrillas in south eastern mountains, attacks that killed great many; which in past invaded villages and killed teachers and officials sent there to develop the area just because they were Turkish. So they see us as people 'committing treason' voting 'terrrorists' into the parliement, because that they desire to build/join a Kurdistan.  They don't understand this blood vengeance has to end. Because they are nationalists; they are blind and full of hatred.

There is also a minority of people in that HDP vote -like me- who think the Kurdish party has a real LEFT agenda. If you ask me they are the only real left in the country right now, at least in the concerns they voice. There are severel reasons for this. Most importantly as they are the 'other', they had the chance to voice a lot of things which average Turkish people find extreme and 'radical' or blasphemous. Like LGBT rights, recognising atrocities in the Empire period. Atheists, LGBT groups, writers, academics, intellectuals, artists...etc voted for HDP in majority and some for CHP.

About traditional Kemalism.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalism It's neither enough, nor sufficient today. While its main principle of laicism (secularism for you), democracy and reformism yielded to the general secularism in the country for the last 90 years, it also feeds ethnic nationalism, dry-unfruitful westernisation and has become the religion of most of the secular of 'White Turks'. White Turks is a disgusting term, but it is valid in this context. There is a considerable group of people that are not different rom the religious group without the abrahamic religion, but with Kemalist nationalism. They need to develop and need to get out from their religion. 'But he founded the secular republic, we wouldn't be what we are without him' is not enough anymore, because we need to found the Republic over again. When you see and think that republic only for Turks, very bloody shit happens as we have seen in the last decades. They need to grow up.

But if you are asking me if there has been a development. Oddly yes. AKP coming up to the power actually taught a lot to people. Esp. to the seculars, there are huge lessons there. It's all about being the soveriegn class. Fuck the sovereignity, fuck the sovereign classes and soveriegn nations. Fuck any kind of entitlement. Nationalism is the most poisionous bullshit, and it has to go. There is always, but always genocide and atrocity behind sovereign nations. So, AKP actually secularised some groups. True colours got out. People learned to react, to get out to streets in hundreds of thousands and battle. Still it made a LOT of damage and if we can get out of it, it will take years to get the country back on track. And see those responsible of the corruption and the infamy went on the last 12 years to be prosecuted.

Another thing you shold remember that there is another religious wing first went out with ErdoÄŸan's party and then turned their back on them,  and got in a 'war' with them. That helped a lot both of their corruption to get out. Glad to see them to break each other. Their leader is Fetullah Gülen and he has lived in the US for more than 30 years. He was supported by the US and just a few years before they got to each others' throat Hillary visited him, probably US was aware of it, so may be even they supported the break between them.

Yes, it's blown out of porportion by the Western media, but it is not just something goes for Turkey. As I have said it many times, people need self affirmation, confirmation of their identity and culture in their homeland. So that's what media does consiously or unconsiouly. They need a contrast. Muslim countries are the new one. Conviction. You need to convince people that they live in the best place. Doesn't really matter what's going on. Western convictions. Perception management. East has the similar mechanism, but it only works the best if you are the 'ideal'.

This is not just something about Western media and Middle East though. If you got to Europe, you would find they do/think the same about American culture and people. According to them America is the most racist country in the world, however I would say, Europe surpasses everywhere on the planet in that department, esp. compared to the culture itself, the education level and where they see themselves and what they should have learned from history. Nobody dares to say this and even somebody does, noone is listening OR people react instantly as 'You are kidding right, have you seen the rest of the world?! I find it 'sad'. 

If no nonwhite people is shot by the police in Europe, the reason for that is that 'the old wolf' cultivated a very 'refined', much skilful oppressing culture and class system (some sort of a cast) and the police simply not a part of it, because there is no need for blatant violence. Trust me, you wouldn't like being an English living in Scotland for example.

So more or less, you can see what is going on over here better than most people in your culture. I think that's probably because your nature is without prejudice and humanistic.

[drunkenshoe]

And I root for the Kurds. Badass bunch of people.

I need to add something here. Majority of Kurds supported ErdoÄŸan through his regime and voted for him in massive numbers. Unfortunately they make one of the most religious and ignorant groups.

My hope is that with HDP coming into the parliement and staying, they will change in time and get their self confidence and get rid of that crippled identity and ignorance they support.

[drunkenshoe]

FREEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM haha its not enough but its a good start

Do you think they will be able to build a coalition government? By nature they don't live long. Sigh. I see people acting cheerful in a victorious manner and cannot help but think, 'idiots!'

Nothing is won yet. Actually, it starts now.  I am worried. Especially about the possibility of the early elections.

[eylul]

Do you think they will be able to build a coalition government? By nature they don't live long. Sigh. I see people acting cheerful in a victorious manner and cannot help but think, 'idiots!' [emoji38]

Nothing is won yet. Actually, it starts now.  I am worried. Especially about the possibility of the early elections.

Before elections i was not sure that HDP will get over the election threshold. And coalition will be never between that 3 parties unfortunately. So the election doesnt mean anything. MHP never deal with HDP. if they do, they will loose electors. CHP and HDP coalition could be possible but it wont be enough. Its really complicated position. But the election made turkey people's mind confused so maybe it works, lets see what will happen. What do you think about coalition?