AA Meetings

[SGOS]

I'm really glad it was a voluntary  matter, and not a court-ordered one.

That's a good beginning.  Court ordered participants may or may not be successful.  The strongest resource anyone has, whether they believe in a God or not, whether they are court ordered or not, comes from within.  Although, I did feel the support group was a big help for me.  Could I have done it on my own?  I don't know. I was aware of my problem, thinking about it, processing it, and making feeble attempts to control it for two years, and I wasn't successful until I found a support group that was committed to sobriety.

At first I went to a alcohol counselor, but in the first session, she said she wouldn't talk to me unless I went to AA and quit drinking.  I thought that was weird.  If I stopped drinking, why the Hell would I want to talk to her in the first place?  I went to AA, quit drinking and never saw that counselor again, except on the street where we had a pleasant exchange once.

Like aitm, I don't like the label "alcoholic".  And even most AA members I've met who are quick to use that label on themselves, are loath to apply it to others.  My sponsor who identified himself as an alcoholic, laughing admitted once that he didn't really know if he was an alcoholic or not.  He said, "Sometimes I sit there and wonder whether I'm really an alcoholic, or was I just being a slob?"  That doesn't sound as funny in writing as it was at the time.  He in no way qualified as a slob.  A real alcoholic?  I don't know.  It's irrelevant, I think.

[SGOS]

He brought up the issue with religion in AA even as he suggested it. He told me it wasn't the be all/end all solution for everyone for that reason, but he did ask me to at least try it and let him know what I thought.

Sounds like he's paying attention to your personal needs.  He's probably a pretty good resource.

[the_antithesis]

I had dealt with AA a little because my ex was an alkie and I disliked how three or four of the twelve steps are "turn it over to god and god will fix it." Because that's rather indiscriminate. I think the serenity prayer is better, not as a prayer obviously, but as instruction. If I noticed one thing about alkies is that they have a hard time not worrying about things, so the stress piles up and they turn to booze or heroine to cope. So putting all that on an imaginary friend's plate may be a useful change, but there's a difference between not worrying about shit you can't control anyway and taking your hands off the wheel with your kids in the car because "god will take care of it."

There are secular alternatives to AA. You could look into them.

And believing in a god is much, much more arrogant than not believing.

[SGOS]

If I noticed one thing about alkies is that they have a hard time not worrying about things, so the stress piles up and they turn to booze or heroine to cope. So putting all that on an imaginary friend's plate may be a useful change, "god will take care of it."

I've thought about this "turn it over to God" thing too.  If you actually believe in a personal god, and you believe he will fix things, then as you say, it should be a relief to let it go, and this applies to non alcoholics too.  Letting go of things you can't control makes good sense.  There are some dynamics at play that I think are fun to consider:

1.  Half the stuff alkies or normies worry about isn't worth the effort and get resolved whether there's a god or not.  Let's say there is a god.  You turn over some stupid thing.  God looks at it, says, "Well look at this is bullshit," and puts it where you should have put it (in the shit can).  In this case, no one, including a god actually did anything, but since it was stupid to begin with, there wasn't anything that really needed to be fixed.

2.  Not everything you "turn over" gets resolved.  Resolution by God mimics a reality without a god.  Some things get fixed.  Some things don't.  People look for resolutions, so when a viable solution comes to mind, they can solve the problem on their own.  Then they praise God for giving them the answer.  "God fixes it."  If god doesn't fix it.  It's just like what happens in reality anyway.  Not to say the outcome is pleasant.  Sometimes it's not.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

One thing you won't hear (at least I never did)  is anyone ever take credit for themselves at AA.. It's always Dr. Spooky in the sky who fixes you.. In AA if you just quit drinking on your own you're a fucking alcoholic and there's no way that you're ever going to remain sober.. It's as if they take bets on how soon you'll crash into a busload of orphans and midgets driving drunk on the wrong side of the road..

[SGOS]

One thing you won't hear (at least I never did)  is anyone ever take credit for themselves at AA.. It's always Dr. Spooky in the sky who fixes you..

Yeah, we are all worthless sinners, incapable of doing anything on our own.

[Savior2006]

Yeah, we are all worthless sinners, incapable of doing anything on our own.

Just been to my fifth meeting. Great bunch of people, but it wasn't a church location this time. I almost wish that it was because there were about fifteen/sixteen people and like twelve of them were smoking throughout the meeting...including the person who was head of the meeting. My dad hates tobacco smoke; I can tolerate it as long as I was outside, but of course we weren't.

The Godbotness is easy to tolerate with the individual person, because they keep it positive. As we've established, the book does not and provides nothing but negative opinions towards those who aren't "spiritual," and when I read chapter 2, I had to keep myself from rolling my eyes.

Now, I've made a conscious decision to avoid reading the book unless we are doing a group discussion on it.

[Savior2006]

And believing in a god is much, much more arrogant than not believing.

In and of itself, I don't think so. "I think there's a god/deity." There's not much arrogance in that. It's "I think there's a God and you are vain/there's something wrong with you, if you don't."

[SGOS]

I almost wish that it was because there were about fifteen/sixteen people and like twelve of them were smoking throughout the meeting...including the person who was head of the meeting.

LOL  I hear you.  Like I REALLY hear you.  We had some meetings that were open to smoking too.  We also met in several churches, on the condition that we didn't smoke inside.  One member just blew it off completely.  We met in the kitchen area, and he would go to the cupboard and get a cup and use it for an ashtray.  Others would leave the discussion and go have a smoke in the bathroom.  The church booted us out, and we had to find another place.  Saturday night was a smokers meeting.  For a while, we met in the basement of a local motel, which didn't want smoke getting into the work out room next door, so we closed the door to the meeting room and turned on a big floor fan, which mixed the smoke with the air evenly.  You could still cut the smoke with a knife.  They kicked us out of there too.   

When I was in California and Alaska, most members smoked, but they always did it outside, and waited until after the meeting.  When they depict AA meetings in the movies, it's always in a smoke filled room.

[Savior2006]

Went back and to a meeting closer to where I live. The lesson was about half-measures, and discussion was based on that. I basically told the people I'm taking it one day at a time, and was only working on the first step, playing Battlefield and drinking grape juice constantly. Even showed them my purple tongue. That was a barrel full of laughs.

No negative reactions from telling people I was only on the first step. I really absolutely have no intention of telling them I'm not religious, because I figure they are just going to hit me with the "spirituality" bullshit.

So far, I've not met anyone I would "come out" to, but that's to be expected so early on.

[aitm]

.. Yeah, she's worth it..

and I for one am very happy for you APA. Really. Good for you. I hope it really works out for you. "sings a coke slogan….can you tell me which one?"

[SGOS]

Went back and to a meeting closer to where I live. The lesson was about half-measures, and discussion was based on that. I basically told the people I'm taking it one day at a time, and was only working on the first step, playing Battlefield and drinking grape juice constantly. Even showed them my purple tongue. That was a barrel full of laughs.

No negative reactions from telling people I was only on the first step. I really absolutely have no intention of telling them I'm not religious, because I figure they are just going to hit me with the "spirituality" bullshit.

So far, I've not met anyone I would "come out" to, but that's to be expected so early on.

I actually did the steps, but when a step called for assistance from a higher power, I would find a way around it.  The "power" involved comes from within, and choosing some dopey higher power like a doorknob as is sometimes suggested, points out that the god part of the whole thing is really a farce.  If you beat this thing, the credit goes to you, and you have every right to feel pride in yourself. 

Sounds like you're on your way.  The first month was the hard part for me, although some people struggle with abstinence for years.  I think the biggest danger point for me was when I started to feel normal again.  It was tempting to think that feeling normal meant I could also drink normally.  But I realized that no matter how I feel, it's always going to require a rational decision not to drink.  And somehow I knew that the power of rational choice would always play a role in my life.  Once you get past the white knuckle stage, reason can always trump emotion or temptation.

Not drinking on any given day is still a rational choice to make, even after 20 years, although it's a rare day anymore when drinking even crosses my mind now. 

Good luck to you.  Watching someone else doing what you're doing is inspiring to me.  Your success is actually good for me, which may sound strange, although it doesn't to me.  There's something about collective success.  I think that's partly why the group part of AA seems to help.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

It's been perhaps a month since my last drink of alcohol without any meetings or any of the Big Spooky stuff.  So far, as always my higher power is and always will be the United States Federal Government. It's not because they have the power to lock me away in a prison, but because they're going to pay for the very expensive HepC treatment for me.
Funny I seldom think about drinking now and we still have bottles of hooch all over the place here not to mention that Sylvia still has plenty of shit around the house that needs constant repair. .
The bottom line about drinking is I like the feeling it gives me,  but at the same time it makes me feel like shit the next day and to be quite honest I really don't like the person I become when I'm drunk and really don't like other drunks. When I'm sober I could just as soon slap the shit out of a drunk as look at them. .

[Savior2006]

I actually did the steps, but when a step called for assistance from a higher power, I would find a way around it.  The "power" involved comes from within, and choosing some dopey higher power like a doorknob as is sometimes suggested, points out that the god part of the whole thing is really a farce.  If you beat this thing, the credit goes to you, and you have every right to feel pride in yourself. 

Sounds like you're on your way.  The first month was the hard part for me, although some people struggle with abstinence for years.  I think the biggest danger point for me was when I started to feel normal again.  It was tempting to think that feeling normal meant I could also drink normally.  But I realized that no matter how I feel, it's always going to require a rational decision not to drink.  And somehow I knew that the power of rational choice would always play a role in my life.  Once you get past the white knuckle stage, reason can always trump emotion or temptation.

Not drinking on any given day is still a rational choice to make, even after 20 years, although it's a rare day anymore when drinking even crosses my mind now. 

Good luck to you.  Watching someone else doing what you're doing is inspiring to me.  Your success is actually good for me, which may sound strange, although it doesn't to me.  There's something about collective success.  I think that's partly why the group part of AA seems to help.

Thanks for the kind words, I'm happy that my (for now) success is making you feel good as well; but really, your success has more of an effect on me. When I hear about people who've had problems and have now gone years--even decades--without drinking, that fills me with hope.

[Gerard]

Don't despair when you fall of the wagon (or what do they call it). You can get on again. I fell of after eight years and resumed my more agreeable behavior after some disagreeable months! Been there ever since!