When Is The Right Time To Suggest Abandoning Gods?

[Givemeareason]

I'll make it my lifes work to hurt old coots except of course me, my gf and my dad..

Ok,  I'll "try" to avoid hurting you old coots IF I GOTTA..

Fuck you, you old coot!  :-)

[Desdinova]

I will presume you are asking me to leave which is really quite ridiculous as you have not been elected to represent us.  And whoever us is also includes me.  I suggest you hit the ignore button and you will feel much better.

I would never ash you to leave GMR!  You've actually grown on me.  Kind of like a skin tag under my armpit.

[Givemeareason]

[quot I ame author=Desdinova link=topic=7756.msg1074998#msg1074998 date=1432132076]
I would never ash you to leave GMR!  You've actually grown on me.  Kind of like a skin tag under my armpit.
[/quote]

Hey,  that is so good to hear!  Now I am starting to really like you.  See when I tell someone "Fuck you" what I am really looking for is affirmation that I am in good company.  That's how real life is.  It is not intended to be hurtful.  I have really come to like Mike even though I frustrate the hell out of him.  See he tells me how it is and holds nothing back.  He doesn't worry about antagonizing me.  And I really like that because his posts then become meaningful to me.  Name calling can be fun but I think it should be meaningful.  So I wish everyone would treat me more like Mike does.  As for now I would appreciate you and others giving me the big FU so I will know I am in good company. :-)

[Solitary]

BITE ME!

[Givemeareason]

BITE ME!

Thanks, Sol.  But so far it looks like you're the only one I am in good company with.  I am not looking for any feedback like that sociopath in the sky.  And as far as he is concerned he just needs more affirmation he is in good company too.

[Solitary]

Thank you for noting that.  Yes pain and hurt are the same thing.  Since we are talking about non-physical experiences neither of us have been harmed. You now have an opportunity if you choose to make it so.  You can grow from our encounter or you can languish back into hate.  I am like the lawyer who is assigned to defend a client whom I know is guilty.  Even though I have been defending religion I still really don't like it.  It's just that my moral structure requires me to address what I perceive as injustice.  And from where I see it that is probably a good thing.  Doing so helps to eliminate pockets of hate and thereby enhances more unity amongst human beings.  I hope you take this opportunity and relinquish all hate.

I hate anyone or group that causes violence and death to any sentient creature for fun. I don't hate religious people, and never said I did, and I never said I hate you either, so don't project your own hatred or pain on me because you are offended by what I said about you! I will always hate religion and any other group that controls peoples minds and bodies involuntarily, or by exploiting the minds of children for their personal gain. And I do hate trolls, as you know, if you aren't one why do you take it so serious if I thought you were one by your posts? Solitary 

[Givemeareason]

I hate anyone or group that causes violence and death to any sentient creature for fun. I don't hate religious people, and never said I did, and I never said I hate you either, so don't project your own hatred or pain on me because you are offended by what I said about you! I will always hate religion and any other group that controls peoples minds and bodies involuntarily, or by exploiting the minds of children for their personal gain. And I do hate trolls, as you know, if you aren't one why do you take it so serious if I thought you were one by your posts? Solitary

The problem I had and which I see you still have is that you are not truthful or at least it seems so to me.  See I have always felt that you hated religion first and then looked for a reason to justify your hate.  It seems this is how it often works. And it is not rational.  This is the same thing creationists do. And as for pain and suffering I feel the same.  When I was young I did a lot of hunting to feed our family because we were poor.  Watching animals die in fear whether instinctual or not became very disturbing to me.  I don't even like fishing anymore.  And since you just said you hate trolls and you clearly think I am still a troll that means you still hate me.  The only problem I was having at that time was that I did not want to be banned.  And you were leading a sort of witch hunt and still are in which by virtue of your accusations I was nearly condemned.  You really need to empathize more with the people being harmed by your actions..

[Solitary]

The problem I had and which I see you still have is that you are not truthful or at least it seems so to me.  See I have always felt that you hated religion first and then looked for a reason to justify your hate.  It seems this is how it often works. And it is not rational.  This is the same thing creationists do. And as for pain and suffering I feel the same.  When I was young I did a lot of hunting to feed our family because we were poor.  Watching animals die in fear whether instinctual or not became very disturbing to me.  I don't even like fishing anymore.  And since you just said you hate trolls and you clearly think I am still a troll that means you still hate me.  The only problem I was having at that time was that I did not want to be banned.  And you were leading a sort of witch hunt and still are in which by virtue of your accusations I was nearly condemned.  You really need to empathize more with the people being harmed by your actions..

As I pointed out above, religion fits into that category, and yes I hate it for all those reasons, how is that not rational to hate a group or groups that do that? And even if it is does that make it wrong? I don't deny that, and never did. You know what---FUCK YOU! I JUST DON'T LIKE YOU BECAUSE OF WHAT-THE-FUCK, OR WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE! Atheist or not you are self serving ass hole. And you are correct, I still think you are a troll, even more than I did originally from the innuendoes you keep making from your delusions and paranoia. Where have I not been truthful? Show me! It only seems to you because you are a troll or dumb ass. I really don't like you, and think that not only are you a troll, but a childish person no matter what your age that gets a kick out of disrupting forums and pushing people's buttons thinking he, or she, is cute. lul!

[Givemeareason]

As I pointed out above, religion fits into that category, and yes I hate it for all those reasons, how is that not rational to hate a group or groups that do that? And even if it is does that make it wrong? I don't deny that, and never did. You know what---FUCK YOU! I JUST DON'T LIKE YOU BECAUSE OF WHAT-THE-FUCK, OR WHO THE FUCK YOU ARE! Atheist or not you are self serving ass hole. And you are correct, I still think you are a troll, even more than I did originally from the innuendoes you keep making from your delusions and paranoia. Where have I not been truthful? Show me! It only seems to you because you are a troll or dumb ass. I really don't like you, and think that not only are you a troll, but a childish person no matter what your age that gets a kick out of disrupting forums and pushing people's buttons thinking he, or she, is cute. lul!

You see you are illustrating the problem I have had with you starting with your witch hunt.  You like to take all the worst characteristics you think that you see in a person and assemble them claiming this proves them to be what you say they are.  This is called the straw man fallacy.  Political opponents love to do this.  And anyone  who has been on this board for a while can see I am nothing like you still claim.  I may seem like a loud mouthed old coot who can't shut up but I am actually here for the same reason I said in the beginning when I was being drowned out by you.  I am so glad that the more rational minds here had a clearer view.  Now you are engaging in a childish display of anger and are starting to fall to pieces.  So how do you think you can recover from this?  I really don't want to see you destroy yourself.  I just did not like seeing others following in your footsteps.

[Odoital778412]

A few of my dear friends are believers.

We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.

I have respected that as well as they have.

Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually.   Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted,   but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.

But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?

It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you.  If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association.  I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself.  This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.

[SGOS]

It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you.  If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association.  I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself.  This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.

Now there's a chicken that came before the egg.

[SGOS]

It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you.  If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association.  I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself.  This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.

The irony of a Christian calling for more tolerance of Christianity is laughable.  You realize you guys aren't exactly viewed as paragons of tolerance, don't you.  The latest research shows people leaving the church in record numbers.  When polled why they are walking away, one of the most common answers is that the church has become too intolerant, hateful, and spiteful. 

Although, that observation is not exactly correct.  The church is no more intolerant or hateful today than it was 50 years ago.  It still hates and persecutes the same things today as it did before.  Well, that's not exactly correct either.  Actually, as the rest of society becomes more accepting of others, Christianity has reacted by becoming even more hateful, spiteful, and discriminatory.  It seems you can't turn around these days without pissing off a Christian.  No wonder people are leaving your cherished religion.

[GSOgymrat]

A few of my dear friends are believers.

We have (had) a mutual understanding that discussion about religion/deities is off-limits. For obvious reasons.

I have respected that as well as they have.

Its just gotten to the point that I care about these people very much, and believe that their (perceived) belief in gods is actually holding them back; socially and intellectually.   Its somewhat presumptuous to think this; granted,   but in my heart, I still feel compelled to help them.

But would it be the right thing to do, or would this cause a rift in our relationship?

If my husband, who is Catholic, told me I needed to go to church because my humanism was "holding me back socially and intellectually" I would assume he was having an existential crisis or some other issue. I'm sure people who proselytize believe they are being helpful but those on the receiving end often don't experience it as beneficence.

[Odoital778412]

The irony of a Christian calling for more tolerance of Christianity is laughable.  You realize you guys aren't exactly viewed as paragons of tolerance, don't you.  The latest research shows people leaving the church in record numbers.  When polled why they are walking away, one of the most common answers is that the church has become too intolerant, hateful, and spiteful. 

Although, that observation is not exactly correct.  The church is no more intolerant or hateful today than it was 50 years ago.  It still hates and persecutes the same things today as it did before.  Well, that's not exactly correct either.  Actually, as the rest of society becomes more accepting of others, Christianity has reacted by becoming even more hateful, spiteful, and discriminatory.  It seems you can't turn around these days without pissing off a Christian.  No wonder people are leaving your cherished religion.

There's no irony from my perspective.  I have a much easier time being tolerant of the religions and views of non-Christians than many others have being tolerant of me.  I'm aware of how Christians are seen, but since the perceptions are often wildly inaccurate, that's not too meaningful to me.  For example, if we disagree with someone, it's often stated that we hate them.  The fact that this isn't true doesn't seem to matter.  It's just repeated over and over again in spite of or maybe because of the inaccuracy.

With regard to people leaving the Church, that's precisely what they should be happening right now.  There will be a great falling away in the latter days, and that's exactly what we see.  No surprise here.  I'm not aware of the Church persecuting anyone.  As far as I can tell, we're simply holding to our beliefs.  And generally speaking, it's the Christians who are being discriminated against, not the non-Christian.

[SkyChief]

It may be the case that they have the same feeling about you.  If you cannot be tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of yours', then I would suggest ending the association.  I would also encourage you to recognize the problem that exists when you aren't able to maintain relationships with people who believe differently than yourself.  This strikes me as being significantly out of step in a multi-cultural and pluralistic society.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in the OP.   My Bad.  My wife and I have been friends with these folks for close to 20 years, now.  Our close bond with them was established a long time ago.  'Maintaining' the relationship was never a problem.  Because we each did our own part in respecting the others' beliefs. 

Its just that recently, I've noticed a slight tendency for them to not participate in some activities that they would have eagerly joined into a few years ago. For instance, I invited them to attend a party where there would be some 'colorful' (don't ask!!  )  people there. A few years ago, they would have jumped at the invitation.  But now expressed some concerns about the people who be attending, and declined for that reason alone.   The party was a blast, and they missed out. 

And I was kind of on the fence about discussing it with them (as a friend). But that would have violated our understanding.

Mike Cl suggested that I bite my lip and honor the pact.  Which makes sense.

Thanks for responding, tho!