Atheist VS Christian morality: Good is evil and vice versa

[dtq123]

Don't worry ... I assume spending an eternity with Hitler will be hell indeed ;-(  How many times will I have to hear ... "If only I had shot that fat idiot, Goering ... I could have won the big one!".

On a more personal note ... I find some eidetic dreams to be ... about reincarnation or other worldly.  I met Napoleon at a wine and cheese party once, 200 years ago ... and we made very short chit-chat in French, when I didn't know any French at the time.  I studied French for three years afterward ... so if I meet him again, we can have a more interesting conversation.  If I meet Hitler in a dream ... "gott in himmel" ... I will be in trouble, because I have never gotten a knack for German ... and you know how fast and emotional his orations are!  But in another eidetic dream, I was a German soldier in WW II ... so I might stand a chance from that POV ... but I might be only allowed to salute ;-(

Enough (...)'s XD

[Baruch]

dtq123 ... as I have opined before ... heaven/hell is a matter of perception.  For some people, spending an eternity in a bath house with handsome men will be heaven, for others ... less so.  There was once a post-life play, put on TV, with Bill Bixby in the lead, which was situated in a bath house.  After you die, you wake up in the bath house with other recently departed.  The men adjust to the fact that they are dead (Bixby's character died on a chicken bone while eating) ... and one by one go off to Last Judgement.  G-d is in trouble at that point, because if Bixby gets angry, he will turn into the Hulk, and smash G-d!  He certainly smashed Loki!!

1liesalot ... well I was being totally honest here ;-)  If you feel like a Stone Age native seeing the Enterprise rising from the sea, don't blame me ;-)

[dtq123]

Too many Ellipses! Seriously.

[Baruch]

If I put in too many comas ... I would go unconscious! ;-)

[dtq123]

If I put in too many comas ... I would go unconscious! ;-)

Bad Spinoza! Bad! Go and reflect on your actions! ;-P

[Baruch]

A semi-colon is better than a colostomy bag ;-)  But I will hold a colon better still (ducks).

[KingJ]

OK great, then we can all agree that homophobia, and the denial of people's rights based simply on their sexuality is an evil we can all hate ?

Homosexuality is an interesting sin.

A thiest cannot but see it as a mortal sin. Thiesm 101 = respect the Creator / don't use your body against the purpose for which it was created.

I do sympathize with many homosexuals. As most (all non- Christian) don't see it as a typical mortal sin. Adultery for example is hating another person. Whereas homosexuality is hating your Creator.

As to your point. Yes there is evil in anyone bashing homosexuals. I completely disagree with many signs Christians raise at their rallies. Discriminating, hating and mocking is not Christainity 101.

Judgment like this is only to be had with Christians. 1 Cor 5 is crystal clear on this.

So there is evil in rebuke if you are not a Christian..... and then there is evil in wanting a homosexual marriage in a Christian church when our bible explicitly forbids it.

[KingJ]

I suppose I could claim that Santa exists, and then when you ask me how I know I could say "well can you deliver gifts to all the kids in the world in one night?"  It would be just as illogical as what you're doing.

No it wouldn't...You and I can believe in a Santa of sort if all kids received presents and regularly / yearly  .

Still playing dumb I see...

[Mike Cl]

No it wouldn't...You and I can believe in a Santa of sort if all kids received presents and regularly / yearly  .

Still playing dumb I see...

You can term him 'dumb'--but you are simply stupid and wallow in your stupidity.  You are the poster child of a person who is willfully ignorant, stupid and simply and naturally, evil.  You have no morals--in fact, I'd say you are amoral--you will do as you will, to whomever you wish, and then cherry pick your evil book to make it 'right' in your eyes.  You represent what is wrong with this world.  If you and your kind were to somehow just disappear, this world would be infinitely better off.  And no, this is not a rant.  It is simply the bald, naked Truth--and the only Truth you will be exposed to.  Go away.

[KingJ]

This is catagorically not what is happening in Exodus. Let me repeat the relevant passage, the first fucking passage that I quoted into Exodus:

1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. 2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land. 3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. 4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments. 5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch forth mine hand upon Egypt, and bring out the children of Israel from among them.

You are not even trying and it is tiresome to have a discussion with someone playing dumb when its convenient.

Rom 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

Christianity 101 = It is not only Pharoahs heart that was hardened...it is EVERY sinner that goes to hell that has his heart hardened.

As I have AlReAdY said to you...the ReSt Of ThE bIbLe TeLlS uS wHo In FaCt WhO GoD cHoOsEs To HaRdEn AnD sOfTeN...the whomsoever will accept HIm = soften, reject Him = harden.

Those two terms are not synonymous. There is no evidence that the Israelites were ever held as slaves by Egyptians in the first place.

When judging God of the bible please try stick to the bible...

You are trying to apologize for their clear evidence of the immorality of your god

You are zooming in on the tooth of a big cuddly teddy bear. I sure hope you are not in law! Your trial of God is ridiculously biased and unfair.

So let me ask you this: why was it that, when Pharaoh promised to let the Israelites go, did Yahuwahu not then go, "You did it! You made the right choice!" and then let Pharaoh make good on that promise, and then return to try to "reach" him after his first step on the road of rehabilitation? Why did Yahuwahu instead harden Pharaoh heart so that he would renege on his promise, just so that Yahuwahu could beat him down more? Why was it that when Pharaoh finally got to get to see the backs of the Israelites after going through all that suffering, that Yahuwahu then hardened his heart again to make him go after the Israelites.

As I have already said. God wanted to make a proper example of Pharaoh for all those nations that would next meet the Jews.

This does not sound like a god that wants to reach Pharaoh. This sounds like a god that is playing with Pharaoh to demonstrate his power to his homes, the Israelites.

God has been trying to reach Pharaoh from birth. As He does us all. God's MO is not to reach us with ''signs and wonders''. Like a rich man splashing his money and hoping for a faithful wife. If we see signs and wonders it is normally bad news for us.

It is absolutely ludicrous that the EVERY PERSON OF THE NATION OF EGYPT played a willing part in the enslavement of the Israelites, or benefited from the same. Most people in Egypt would be poor farmers who couldn't afford a single slave. The people who would own slaves would be the upper crust, who are much much less numerous than the pesants below

I am not God to comment on this. But what I do know from looking at the rest of scripture is that God always protects and delivers those who turn to Him. I am sure that those who sided with the Jews were spared. We believe God of the universe is highly intelligent.

Also, do you think that small children who don't know any better or the little babies just born only to die in the last plague caused harm to a single Israelite, you psycho? Yet these babies and children died. They are, by any reasonable definition of the word, blameless. It is immoral to punish innocent people while you are punishing those 'sinners', you psycho

. I am psycho because you are too lazy to look beyond your nose in your judgment of God...of the universe? Really?

Did you have any control over your birth? It is not evil for God of the universe who LOVES babies AND sinners Matt 5:44.....to take them to be with Him....He did make them after all.

As for you and me, yes it is very evil for us to kill babies.

It is immoral to manipulate the wills of even sinners to make it impossible to accept any warning you give them. In that case, you are not "warning" them; you are taunting them.

Does it make sense to you that God give him warnings and make him unable to head them at the same time? Try and read with some lateral thought and context please.

It is either a case of:

1. Pharaoh was already ''long gone'' and God used the plague process to set a precedent on how He would deal with the evil.
2. Pharaoh was not long gone and God was earnestly trying to reach him with increasing in severity plagues. This agrees with the rest of scripture.

1. <Searching for Hell>
<Hell not found>
2. <Searching for Heaven>
<Heaven not found>
3. <Searching for Yahuwahu/God>
<Yahuwahu/God not found>

1. So we don't have a working brain that grasps the need to isolate the evil?
2. So we assume a God who created all does not have a nice home?
3. Notice that your nose is nowhere near your behind.

He seems to be hiding rather a lot for someone who has "nothing to hide."
The problem, my dear demented psycho, is that I have thought about this, much deeper than you have. There is no evidence for his existence equal to the claim of his existence. A supposedly all-powerful being could manifest in the next minute, perform some amazing act that is verifiable all around the world by the best scientific instruments. He could show us Pharaoh, suffering in hell, contrite and repentant. He could lift that "darkly glass" â€"nowâ€" and reveal to all of us why he's such a good chap, even if he has to lower it again to preserve our tiny little minds. It would not prove that he is everything he says, but it would be a fucking start!

God has got nothing to prove to us. He is only interested in ONE thing right now. That we choose to HATE what is evil and cling to what is good in the space and time He has given us. We are ''on show'', not Him.

Believing in the miraculous does not cause a change of heart. James 1:27 = looking after widows and orphans is  religion undefiled.

The only thing you have is your worthless apologetic, trying to defend the undefendable acts of the Yahuwahu portrayed in the OT. The OT God was a vile creature,

The evidence points to Pharaoh being warned many times and him still defying God. A missinterpretable line of God hardening his heart just as Rom 9 can easily be missinterpreted. A common mistake by someone who has not read the rest of the bible (even OT) or someone looking to construe and not interested in a fair trial.

God of the OT was actually very good. It is good to remove the wicked. What we notice is the manner in which He removed them was good. No brazen bulls. Just proper / quick deaths. We also notice that removing them was a last resort after many warnings Jonah 4:2.

Have you got anything else on Him from the OT?

Your attempts to try to spin my refusal to fold to your empty reasoning is not my problem.

Spin? When you are in court I will hear your FULL story before I pass judgment.

Real schollars note that apparently Yahuwahu did the awful shit to Egypt and took away more people in one stroke than in all their wars... and apparently never noticed and think that the book is telling a fib, even if it was the bible. Real schollars would note that the bible does not square away with archeology, and think that the bible is telling a distorted story.

Are these real scholars the same ones that made terrible reading blunders recently on OT slavery?

Like quoting.... ''masters can beat slaves and go without punishment...God of the OT is EVIL personified''..... when a prior verse says the punishment they avoid is death and verses after say that if they beat a slave badly the slave is free....

Of course, the people who are pumping you with bible info are not real schollars.

I simply read the bible unbiasedly. Don't attend church often and don't agree with many Christians on many things. But one thing that is crystal clear is that your take on God of the bible is ridiculously biased and wrong.

Have you ever read the bible with an open mind?

[KingJ]

You can term him 'dumb'--but you are simply stupid and wallow in your stupidity.  You are the poster child of a person who is willfully ignorant, stupid and simply and naturally, evil.  You have no morals--in fact, I'd say you are amoral--you will do as you will, to whomever you wish, and then cherry pick your evil book to make it 'right' in your eyes.  You represent what is wrong with this world.  If you and your kind were to somehow just disappear, this world would be infinitely better off.  And no, this is not a rant.  It is simply the bald, naked Truth--and the only Truth you will be exposed to.  Go away.

I cherry pick? You have not been reading the posts have you...

[KingJ]

Playing Devil's Advocate ... I remain unconvinced that people actually love good and hate bad (a more neutral term than "evil").

Nobody on earth is pure evil. Hence they are still on earth.

I believe when your love of evil is full measure, God relocates you. We also don't need to do an evil to be evil. Approving of evil is evil. 

Then there is the fact that God '''knows'' that He has been trying to constantly reach each of us....and us constantly rejecting Him ...equates to us '''thinking''' we are not evil....when in fact we are. Nobody wants to go to bed at night thinking they are evil. So step 1. stop thinking about a God. Step 2. brainwash yourself that your evil is good.

Would you say that there are not people that love adultery? People that feel nothing for murdering? People that feel nothing for the person they hurting when stealing? We can't all agree that paedophiles are evil?

[KingJ]

1. A quick thing about morality and hell .... What would have happened if Hitler had embraced Jeeeeesus just before he shot himself? Would he go to Heaven? And would I be sent in the opposite direction just for rejecting mumbo-jumbo Christianity (as opposed to starting to world wars and killing everyone). 2. And then there's  eternal hell fire?!!!! What a concept! Eternal burning flesh for ever and ever? I wouldn't even do it to Hitler, because even that monster didn't actually ask to be born.


FUCK

OFF

1. If your kid comes to you and apologizes for running away, will you make him sleep outside with the dogs?

The gospel from God to mankind has NEVER been sin = hell, no sin = heaven. It has always been ''we are given space and time to come to the decision that we choose to hate what is evil or love it. Repentance = 100% hating what is evil. It is very possible to be stuck in sin and still hate it Rom 7:15. But that would really only apply to venial sins and not mortal sins.


2. Hell is completely missunderstood. Everyone who claims it is a place of eternal torture is simply incapable of lateral thought and reading scripture properly.

The fire of our torment goes to heaven = we are in torture of our doing.
God tells us to love our enemies because He loves His = God will ensure that hell is a good a place as possible. Expect better then Geneva convention treatment.

What we have to understand is that God describes things from His vantage point. Anyone not currently ''with Him'' is suffering / in death / lost. That is God describing your CURRENT position in life. It is all relative to what He wants for us. Compared to heaven, hell is terrible. Compared to what God wants to reveal to us, not experiencing that is the difference between death and life.

God DOES NOT hate His enemy! God is NOT evil 1 John 1:5. God has spent NO time inventing torture machines. God honouring the request of the demons to be cast into pigs = evidence of hating them? God allowing the devil to tempt Him in the wilderness on not one but three occasions = evidence of hating him?

God hopes that all choose to be with Him. Choosing to be with Him is NOT choosing Christianity over Islam or even over atheism. Choosing to be with Him is choosing to HATE what is evil and CLING to what is good Rom 12:9. You condemn yourself to hell when your deeds are evil and you love them John 3:19. Christianity comes in when you get a direct revelation from God of Jesus Matt 16:16-17 and 1 Cor 12:3. This happens when we draw close to Him James 4:8 by following Rom 12:9.

[Drummer Guy]

No it wouldn't...You and I can believe in a Santa of sort if all kids received presents and regularly / yearly  .

Still playing dumb I see...

Now you're just starting to get ruder and ruder.  Are you able to explain how you know we are more than our physical selves or not?  If not, please just be honest and say so.  Insulting me isn't an argument.

[Solitary]

My wife and I are both adulterers and love each other, even though she doesn't like me. How do you know so much about sin? Oh, I get it, you were created from the sin of your parents. All you do is keep parroting Christian-Judeo-Islamic ignorance thinking you have knowledge. Do you ever think for yourself? I feel sad for people like you that still need a magical father figure in the sky to guide them out of fear of making their own mistakes in life, and use the devil as an escape goat, or teachings of Scripture to justify their ignorance.