REPENT, UNBELIEVERS!!!

[SGOS]

I don't exclude with 100% certainity the existence of some kind of macroscopical order or intelligence

Lightweight.  Welcome.

[kilodelta]

I repented in my pants... does that count?

[SGOS]

I repented in my pants... does that count?

That's where it counts the most.

[Termin]

Hi there. I'm Conradine, but you can call me 'nradine. I'm here to convert you all and save your filthy unbelieving souls. But it could take a bit of time so, until I eventually succed in bringing you to light, true and eternal coolness, let's have a bit of fun.
See ya around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osN_LUmHp8s

[Mike Cl]

I repented in my pants... does that count?

As long as you clean up after yourself.

[Desdinova]

The real question is how often do you crap and fart?

[Mike Cl]

I always have been pratically atheist ( I call myself "teorically agnostic" because I don't exclude with 100% certainity the existence of some kind of macroscopical order or intelligence, but I'm 100% certain that the antropomorphic deities of religions are human-made creations ) and I never had any rational doubts about abramitic religions.

But more ore less one year ago I was striken by an irrational fear ( "what if I am wrong about islamic / catholic / protestant Hell?" ), so I felt the need to study the origins of the abramitic mythology, and also platonism which is the basis of christian philosphy ( Scolastica ), in order to rationally prove them false.

I guess that some will think "wasn't the tale of the talking snake enough to persuade you that it's bullcrap"?
Yes, as a child was enough but as a anxiety-striken adult I needed to search a bit more.

I found very informative Bart Ehrman's phililogy books about mistranslation and forgeries in the Bible.

That does not sound pleasant.  But have you considered professional help?

[Conradine]

Apparently you had a bad trauma and went through a rough patch. I'm guessing you lost peole close to you or had some connection with the event. Did you have a life threatening experience?

I think it was a concurrence of circumstances and events.
I went through a long interval of stress ( long story ), lost a relative after a long illness ( breast cancer ) and the accident in my town were two people younger than me died. I was not directly involved but it made me think a lot about the uncertainity of life.

Then I made the mistake of getting involved in too many discussion with theists, and read too many fundies articles. I guess that some of these scare tactics had a grip on my stress-weakened mind.

[drunkenshoe]

I think it was a concurrence of circumstances and events.
I went through a long interval of stress ( long story ), lost a relative after a long illness ( breast cancer ) and the accident in my town were two people younger than me died. I was not directly involved but it made me think a lot about the uncertainity of life.

Then I made the mistake of getting involved in too many discussion with theists, and read too many fundies articles. I guess that some of these scare tactics had a grip on my stress-weakened mind.

OK. Sorry to hear all that. 

[Conradine]

have you considered professional help?

Yes. But the two problems were:

1- solving the irrational doubt about hell
2- solving the fear of mortality in itself


None of these problems could be solved by an analyst because, for problem 1, I needed to be 100% sure about the non-existence of the danger, and about problem 2, an analyst could only suggest me tricks to accept death.

About problem 1, I think I've solved it. I found relief in reading about the numerous variations and forgeries in the Gospels, the assirian, phoenician and egyprian myths that predates christianity, and also getting a bit deeper in my understanding of evolution ( shame to me, when I was in high school I learned really little about, just memorized some pages and got past my exams... like most of the other guys had done ).

About problem 2, well, I feel not ready to accept my mortality so I chosen to put my hopes in transhumanism and life prolonging strategies.

[SGOS]

Then I made the mistake of getting involved in too many discussion with theists, and read too many fundies articles. I guess that some of these scare tactics had a grip on my stress-weakened mind.

My grandmother was a fundamentalist, and got to me when I was probably around three.  I think my mother told her to back off, but my grandmother made an impression, and I carried that baggage for many years.

[Conradine]

There is one particular mind trick that disturbed me. The presumption that there is no honest atheist, because Paul in the Bible said that everyone knows in his earth is accountable and bla bla. Usually I would answer "you don0t read minds so shut up".
And it's the logical answer.

But in that moment of stress and obsessive thinking about death I started asking myself "Am I REALLY sure I am not deceiving myself?".

It's frustrating because no matter the argumentation, believers keeps repeating that you are lying to yourself and secretly knows you're wrong, that you just want to sin and do not change your lifestyle... these kind of things.

I was not used to these kind of discussions. In Italy, despite the heavy presence of catholic church, most believers are quite...
let's say, lukewarm about faith.

[SGOS]

There is one particular mind trick that disturbed me. The presumption that there is no honest atheist, because Paul in the Bible said that everyone knows in his earth is accountable and bla bla.

Well in my long transition from Christian to atheists (many years), I thought about things like this, and I looked at myself honestly too, because I believe self honesty is crucial to mental well being.  I probably spent more time thinking and wondering about God that most Christians, because if he did exist, it would have highly serious implications for mankind.  The problem is that emotions and human desires aside, there isn't one shred of evidence to support the existence of a god.  So like you, I understand that God is not the logical answer, and you're right Paul and the rest of Christianity can't read minds.  Most important of all is that when theists make the "you know in your heart" claim, they are full of shit, at least if they are saying that to me.  I know what's in my heart much better than they do.  You know what's in your heart too.

Usually I would answer "you don0t read minds so shut up".
And it's the logical answer.  But in that moment of stress and obsessive thinking about death I started asking myself "Am I REALLY sure I am not deceiving myself?".

I've been there too, that brainwashing I got from my grandmother creates a lot of baggage, and it doesn't go away emotionally, even though you know it doesn't past the test of logic.  So you question yourself, which is a good thing, but only to a certain extent.  When you violate reason with such obsessive thinking.  It becomes a handicap.  When you let it tell you what is not in your heart, it's a handicap.  However, you've turned your mental garbage can upside down and dumped out most of the garbage, but the maggots clinging to the sides of the can don't die right away.  That stuff can haunt you for a long time, but reason can prevail.  At least that's what I've found.

It's frustrating because no matter the argumentation, believers keeps repeating that you are lying to yourself and secretly knows you're wrong, that you just want to sin and do not change your lifestyle... these kind of things.

I'm hear to tell you, they don't know what they are talking about.  They make up stuff and swallow passages from the Bible without thought or reason.  Don't let them tell you what's in your mind.  They have not a clue.

I was not used to these kind of discussions. In Italy, despite the heavy presence of catholic church, most believers are quite...
let's say, lukewarm about faith.

I hope you will enjoy the forum.  I think you have a lot to offer.

[Aletheia]

Yes. But the two problems were:

1- solving the irrational doubt about hell
2- solving the fear of mortality in itself


None of these problems could be solved by an analyst because, for problem 1, I needed to be 100% sure about the non-existence of the danger, and about problem 2, an analyst could only suggest me tricks to accept death.

About problem 1, I think I've solved it. I found relief in reading about the numerous variations and forgeries in the Gospels, the assirian, phoenician and egyprian myths that predates christianity, and also getting a bit deeper in my understanding of evolution ( shame to me, when I was in high school I learned really little about, just memorized some pages and got past my exams... like most of the other guys had done ).

About problem 2, well, I feel not ready to accept my mortality so I chosen to put my hopes in transhumanism and life prolonging strategies.

You can discredit the existence about hell by studying the origins of the concept and watching as the idea was embellished upon much like a rumour or a game of "Chinese whispers." The concept can also be discredited by the notion that your body is decomposing and therefore you no longer have pain receptors or a brain and therefore cannot feel pain. This undermines the purpose of hell - to cause pain.

Everything dies - that is the nature of life. I've seen death very frequently in my life and the transition from living to dead is almost instant. Whatever fears, worries, or pain you feel while alive no longer matter when you die. Death is as simple as flipping a light switch. One moment you're here and in the next you no longer exist. The experience of death is no different than the experience you had before you were born.

Death is inevitable. We can choose to live our precious life in fear of it, or we can choose to just live our life.

[Mr.Obvious]

Welcome conradine, to our little band of heathens.