Another shooting that has nothing to do with Islam

[pr126]

Of course the shooting at Charlie Hebdo, and recently in Texas, is perfectly in accordance with Islam.
Following the prophet's example. (Quran 33:21)

Muhammad’s Dead Poets Society

[drunkenshoe]

Because if that particular 'beehive' is left alone it will only grow bigger, gain more queens, and build more hives.  Maybe--just maybe--a little blasphemy is what IS called for.  Maybe the sane person is the one saying that those 'answers' are not my answers and your Truth is not my Truth--stay out of my life--stay out of my head.  I have a much right to be free of that crap as they have of spewing it.

'Beehive' is not some group of people attacking drawing competitions or news papers for prophet caricatures. It's the Middle East that has been turned upside down, played in every level, made stage for Western power game plays for decades. Beehive has been divided to a dozen beehives some time ago.

This has nothing to do with somebody's truth or answers or sanity or even fucking religion.     

[Brian37]

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I fail to see how that means that a dozen or a hundred people can get together and make fun of stupidity and it be suggested they are responsible when the stupid thinks they have the right to kill over it.

No Brian, the OP comment was sarcasm.

It referred to the comments made by the leader of the free world, the POTUS,  that Islam has nothing to do with Islam.

You are right, it has everything to do with Islam, but far too many non Muslims would like to give Islam a free pass. 

Not all, the lady who blasted Ben Aflack out of Pakistan was a Muslim. Malala is a  Muslim, Ayaan is a former Muslim, and there are a growing number of apostates you can find online on FB out of that part of the world who are still in Islam or have left Islam who want that region to get with the secular west.

Now if you want to argue far too much of it is still living in an Islamic Dark Ages, I agree. But to say there are no Muslims at all or former Muslims wanting to get rid of theocracy, you'd be wrong.

My beef is with any well intended liberal who thinks walking on eggshells will solve anything.

[drunkenshoe]

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I fail to see how that means that a dozen or a hundred people can get together and make fun of stupidity and it be suggested they are responsible when the stupid thinks they have the right to kill over it.

If you play games with people's land, use it, invade it, fuck with it every way possible, divide and militarize to fuck up with this and that they try to kill your people at every opportunity. American international policies based on invasion and war. Military intervention provides wealth and power to your country. Is it too much for you to imagine that American policies is not the only one which see itself righteous at murder?

In the US, you can shoot someone dead because they tresspassed your property and get away without trial alltogther in some states claiming standing your ground. You understand that I suppose.  Now, you invaded an area for nothing, it was known that there was nothing there, and aftermath was millions of dead civilians. And you suggest that these people wouldn't feel a hatred of this level to kill Americans at every opportunity? How is possible that you fail to get that picture and see it as you described it above? Because you are Americans and others are 'stupids'?

[Shiranu]

Because if that particular 'beehive' is left alone it will only grow bigger...

Yeah, here is the problem... there is a difference between leaving alone, confronting and intentionally provoking. This is not constructive confrontation, this is just trying to get a rise out of people. It is the "Targeted at Islam" equivalent of the Westborogh Baptist Church real-life trolling just for the sake of getting a rise. Look at the name of the organization, for christ's sake... the American Freedom Defense Initiative, who is lead by the woman who wrote the book, "The Obama Administration's War on America" and is classified as a hate group by the SPLC and Britain. Is that really the woman you want to be standing with?

And pardon, but do please explain to me how committing an act that is going to offend the majority of Muslims who would otherwise be on your side is at all constructive? If I was to start garnering notoriety for being an asshole towards Christians, starting a hate group towards Christians, and then held an event where I painted a picture of Jesus getting assfucked by a donkey and giving head to Satan... would you still say it was a "smart" choice of freedom of speech, since I was only "aiming" my insult at "radical Christians" like the WBC or those who hate homosexuals? Or would it be a little more obvious in that scenario how unproductive that is?

I'm sorry, but when it comes to Islam it's like all logic is tossed out the window just for a chance to piss them off. And Drunken nailed it when she said it is just a matter of the West carrying on what it feels is a "clash of civilizations". That's all this is at it's heart, it has nothing to do with fixing the problems that exist in Islam and all to do with the fact that we are the entitled and more powerful civilization, so clearly our way is the only way.

[drunkenshoe]

Look at the name of the organization, for christ's sake.. the American Freedom Defense Initiative  who is lead by the woman who wrote the book, "The Obama Administration's War on America" and is classified as a hate group by the SPLC and Britain. Is that really the woman you want to be standing with?

I need to read about this.

[aitm]

If you play games with people's land, use it, invade it, fuck with it every way possible, divide and militarize to fuck up with this and that they try to kill your people at every opportunity. American international policies based on invasion and war. Military intervention provides wealth and power to your country. Is it too much for you to imagine that American policies is not the only one which see itself righteous at murder?

In the US, you can shoot someone dead because they tresspassed your property and get away without trial alltogther in some states claiming standing your ground. You understand that I suppose.  Now, you invaded an area for nothing, it was known that there was nothing there, and aftermath was millions of dead civilians. And you suggest that these people wouldn't feel a hatred of this level to kill Americans at every opportunity? How is possible that you fail to get that picture and see it as you described it above? Because you are Americans and others are 'stupids'?

oh I see, you're taking this to be an "american" thing and not just that anyone anywhere hasn't the right to make fun of stupid. Got  it. Still disagree, I understand the whole american rant, thats fine, but again, what does that have to do with a dozen or...meh  whatever.

[Mike Cl]

'Beehive' is not some group of people attacking drawing competitions or news papers for prophet caricatures. It's the Middle East that has been turned upside down, played in every level, made stage for Western power game plays for decades. Beehive has been divided to a dozen beehives some time ago.

This has nothing to do with somebody's truth or answers or sanity or even fucking religion.   

Guess I'm a little dense--could you explain that to me?

[PickelledEggs]

The intentions weren't stated in the article. I doubt the shooter thought he had a right to do anything and this was more likely done out of fear or anger and done with irrational decision making. (like a lot of similar things that happen).

[drunkenshoe]

oh I see, you're taking this to be an "american" thing and not just that anyone anywhere hasn't the right to make fun of stupid. Got  it. Still disagree, I understand the whole american rant, thats fine, but again, what does that have to do with a dozen or...meh  whatever.

Oh come on aitm. American rant? Summarising what has happened in the last decades in a paragraph and linking to that extremists attacking at every opportunity is an American rant now?

This is not about mocking anything. If it wasn't the blasphemy thing, it would be something else. I can't believe you are still going on about 'the right to make fun of the stupid'. What do you want? A wiki link to causality principles?

Besides, I take that as an insult. If I went on an some "American rant", it would be a detailed half thread long post, not a small paragraph.

[drunkenshoe]

Guess I'm a little dense--could you explain that to me?

Your post above taking the conflict as if it was between individuals. I said no it isn't. The posts I wrote to aitm talks about the same thing. Please don't make me write again, my eyes burn.

[aitm]

This is not about mocking anything.

Yes, yes it is. You want to argue that this is all about american imperialism and yada yada, that's fine and dandy. However, I am saying that people should be able to mock,ridicule and laugh at stupid, no matter who they are or where they are. If you are suggesting that modern day turks cannot make jokes at stupid things an armenian might say or do because of the "genocide" you can make that point but I would still disagree.

[drunkenshoe]

However, I am saying that people should be able to mock,ridicule and laugh at stupid, no matter who they are or where they are.

Ah, we are not talking about "SHOULD". This is not some survey on how an ideal world would work, aitm. You misunderstood me. Yes, we completely agree on that. However, things doesn't work that way in reality. The reality is what 'american emparialism yada yada' created, doesn't matter how you put it should be. If it wasn't blasphemy, it would be something else. They do NOT need blasphemy to attack, it just provides the best opportunity that's all.

You know what aitm? The way you see this is a very good example how you guys are cut from the world's reality. 

If you are suggesting that modern day turks cannot make jokes at stupid things an armenian might say or do because of the "genocide" you can make that point but I would still disagree.

No, they are saying horrible stuff. Modern day Turks are like everyone else. They are obnoxious to what they do not like, but they do not like it when it's done to them.

Not the minority of Turks in the country who recognises genocide. I think the most offensive thing I said to an Armenian was that I didn't guess she was one (she was an Armenian American and I was asked to guess) because she lacked the signature hook nose.

[stromboli]

From a big picture standpoint, Drunken is right. This shit all dates back to WW1; from broken promises made to Arab leaders to weak leaders that cowtowed to the West to CIA intervention in Iran to overthrow a modern Muslim government, to oil magnates empowering the Saudis, to a whole laundry list of other reasons. Throw in the internal issues based on tribal hatreds dating back centuries to radicalized Islamists being empowered by events to whatever.

you can analyze this shit endlessly. But one bad thing that should have happened and didn't is that the Charlie Hebdo attacks should have been universally condemned by everyone, period. When people like the Pope and pinheads like Huckabee condemn Charlie Hebdo for attacking religion, they went a long way towards justifying the attacks, if only by not outright condemning them. Only by universally condemning every attack against free speech can there be a united front against it. Just wait and see what comes out the mouths of Huckabee and other religious leaders over this event.

My personal big picture view is that the whole thing ultimately works against Islam and religion in general, because people don't like their quiet lives being disturbed by this idiocy. And the religious are continually roiling the pot, and in the end will lose because of it.

[Solomon Zorn]

If you play games with people's land, use it, invade it, fuck with it every way possible, divide and militarize to fuck up with this and that they try to kill your people at every opportunity. American international policies based on invasion and war. Military intervention provides wealth and power to your country. Is it too much for you to imagine that American policies is not the only one which see itself righteous at murder?

In the US, you can shoot someone dead because they tresspassed your property and get away without trial alltogther in some states claiming standing your ground. You understand that I suppose.  Now, you invaded an area for nothing, it was known that there was nothing there, and aftermath was millions of dead civilians. And you suggest that these people wouldn't feel a hatred of this level to kill Americans at every opportunity? How is possible that you fail to get that picture and see it as you described it above? Because you are Americans and others are 'stupids'?

Agree, in principle, with everything you said. But it has nothing significant to do with this particular act of extremism. The perpetrators were Americans themselves, I believe. One was from Arizona. This was caused by an extreme intolerance of blasphemy. This was caused by religion. This was caused by valuing a holy-proscription, over peoples lives.

I plan on doing a "Where's Waldo" style satire drawing called, "Where's Jesus," to go with my poem, "Hide and Seek." I don't care if someone gets offended by it. They should be offended, because I'm calling them stupid. That has nothing to do with being a culturally isolated American, and everything to do with freedom of expression.

But in my case, I used to be a Christian, so I have a right to ridicule it. I'm not sure that a contest for non-Muslims to use the image of Mohammed has quite the same integrity, but any good art is is provocative and offensive to someone.