Many Atheists are not Rational

[Givemeareason]

NO, sorry, our planet was around long before humans. The meteor that killed the dinosaurs didn't stop and ask what dinosaurs believed or what their morality was. In the future our species will go extinct and there will be no record of either the atheist or theist or the positions we hold. The universe was fine before we existed and will continue on long after the planet and our sun dies.

I used to think the same way.  But now I am beginning to wonder.  This is also the first time anything like this has ever happened here.  And thought has never happened before either.  So it is starting to look rather amazing to me.

[Givemeareason]

I am happy for you.  You are about as far from profound for me as anybody can be.  How do you think you are 'engaged' here?  You don't explain a thing.  You don't sustain a thing.  You contribute nothing.  You are like a fart--cause a stink for a second and then fade away to nothing.

Be patient with me.  I am evolving.

[Aletheia]

Givemeareason, a discussion or dialogue involves an exchange of ideas, emotions, or trivialities. At the end of the day, both parties need to get something out of it. When it comes to you, much of the discussion involves your musings and trivial gratitude, but very little in listening to others or offering feedback specific to topic at hand and the variations of a topic's evolution. To engage in conversation implies that you are receiving the information, offering feedback specific to this information, and then waiting for the feedback from the other person(s). Without this, all that's left is a dialogue so off balanced that it narrowly misses being a monologue only because the other party is requesting feedback over and over again therefore showing they are willing to participate.

A forum involves discussions - not personal musings in which you may or may not offer meaningful feedback to a given discussion. If you are unable to offer a response to every post you receive, then pick the most prominent posts and create a single post that responds to them. The use of quotes will show who you are responding to and offer structure and clarity to your responses. A sloppy response is much better than none at all.

[Givemeareason]

Givemeareason, a discussion or dialogue involves an exchange of ideas, emotions, or trivialities. At the end of the day, both parties need to get something out of it. When it comes to you, much of the discussion involves your musings and trivial gratitude, but very little in listening to others or offering feedback specific to topic at hand and the variations of a topic's evolution. To engage in conversation implies that you are receiving the information, offering feedback specific to this information, and then waiting for the feedback from the other person(s). Without this, all that's left is a dialogue so off balanced that it narrowly misses being a monologue only because the other party is requesting feedback over and over again therefore showing they are willing to participate.

A forum involves discussions - not personal musings in which you may or may not offer meaningful feedback to a given discussion. If you are unable to offer a response to every post you receive, then pick the most prominent posts and create a single post that responds to them. The use of quotes will show who you are responding to and offer structure and clarity to your responses. A sloppy response is much better than none at all.

I see your point.  I do too much in the way of ducking in and out.  That being the case it is inappropriate for me to keep starting new threads and then just ducking back to collect what I may have gathered.  I will henceforth make no new threads unless I can stay with them.  It is clear I need to become more informed on Internet etiquette.

[doorknob]

Many Athiest are not rational.  Sure we like to pride ourselves about how rational we are, etc.  But we think with our new found wisdom we have reached some plateau of understanding.  We have not.  All we have gained is simply the realization there is no God.  But what we have not realized is that God is just a concept and the concept still EXISTS!  We cannot eradicate a concept that has existed for a hundreds of thousands of years fulfilling the needs of billions of people regardless of how they used or abused it.  So now we have a choice.  We can remembrance and recognize that religion still has value. And we understand it or go all the way down to hating it.  Understanding it should be the choice for the rational mind.  Hate is not a product of the rational mind.  By understanding it we take a more detached viewpoint.  We relinquish our egos, fears, doubts etc that are attached to us.  We look again and observe it deciding how this should be addressed.  We are the components of the collective mind of HUMANITY.  With regard all of human knowledge we then begin to the value of religion.  But unfortunately we generally only view things from the view one component viewing another component.  We miss the big picture because our point of view was so limited.  But the components can still expand their points of view.  All we need do is detach ourselves and try to assume a larger point of view.  We then strive for the OBJECTIVE point of view and become open minded.  We still have the foundation of human knowledge and we are now able to see and discard what is not relevant or simply wrong.  This is the foundation of SCIENCE.  Now all I am saying here i that this is a concept within my own mind and think this is a very rational viewpoint.  I decide within myself what I want to experience.  When I encounter something that does not fit in my rational view then I choose what action to take.  If it grabs my interest I generally pursue and confront it.  That is why I am here.  Now I am trying to say all this in very systematic yet elementary terms.  Religious people having been placed in combat mode love to say that atheism has no moral basis in which to exist.  But that is WRONG.  One of the very first concepts was when we realized that we worked best groups.  Therefore the logical observation was that it was better to get along with each other.  So we created the principle of the Golden Rule which is also called by many other names and was incorporated into all our religion.  But they cannot lay claim to that or many other morals.  They appear to me as being self evident.  But here we are having relinquished God and now asking "NOW WHAT?"  This is what needs to be addressed here.  Rather than running off people who don't conform or we don't understand we should confront them in a logical manner without attacking them.  Now some might be sociopaths and those are probably the trolls being referred to.  So we need to examine them closely and as rationally as possible.  Can I now become accepted in your group? :-)

OH I strongly disagree. We can eradicate religion just like we eradicated the belief that the world was flat. If we just sat down and said oh well people will always believe the world is flat people need to believe the world is flat and we should just accept that people believe the world is flat, people would still believe the world is flat! The world can not be a better place if we sit down and accept things it can only get worse if we don't speak out and stand up to it. And there is nothing irrational about that.

Also I can prove that humans do not need religion. I am living proof of it. I have not needed religion for 8 years now and I'm doing much better than when I believed in god. Religion holds humanity back there is little redeeming value in it end of statement.

Now you can keep presenting the same argument over and over again and gain nothing or you can keep reading and gain some insight on how your opinion is not the only one! You might think you can keep beating us over the head with it but it will never stick because it is simply just not true!

[Givemeareason]

OH I strongly disagree. We can eradicate religion just like we eradicated the belief that the world was flat. If we just sat down and said oh well people will always believe the world is flat people need to believe the world is flat and we should just accept that people believe the world is flat, people would still believe the world is flat! The world can not be a better place if we sit down and accept things it can only get worse if we don't speak out and stand up to it. And there is nothing irrational about that.

Also I can prove that humans do not need religion. I am living proof of it. I have not needed religion for 8 years now and I'm doing much better than when I believed in god. Religion holds humanity back there is little redeeming value in it end of statement.

Now you can keep presenting the same argument over and over again and gain nothing or you can keep reading and gain some insight on how your opinion is not the only one! You might think you can keep beating us over the head with it but it will never stick because it is simply just not true!

Oh, but some people evidently do still believe the world is flat.  What difference doe it make?  You have only proven that some people don't need religion.  Since you and others seem to be so rigid in your new beliefs, maybe I should keep bringing up the same old argument?

[Mike Cl]

Oh, but some people evidently do still believe the world is flat.  What difference doe it make?  You have only proven that some people don't need religion.  Since you and others seem to be so rigid in your new beliefs, maybe I should keep bringing up the same old argument?

HaHaHa...............you are a riot.  Since when have you had an argument?  Or stated any reasons of any kind????  Still just an old fart--make a stink and then fade away. 

[Givemeareason]

HaHaHa...............you are a riot.  Since when have you had an argument?  Or stated any reasons of any kind????  Still just an old fart--make a stink and then fade away.

You need to lighten up, Mike.  You are becoming too personal.  You should know by that I am fairly oblivious to insult.  I would prefer you revert back to your more enlightened viewpoints.

[Givemeareason]

OH I strongly disagree. We can eradicate religion just like we eradicated the belief that the world was flat. If we just sat down and said oh well people will always believe the world is flat people need to believe the world is flat and we should just accept that people believe the world is flat, people would still believe the world is flat! The world can not be a better place if we sit down and accept things it can only get worse if we don't speak out and stand up to it. And there is nothing irrational about that.

Also I can prove that humans do not need religion. I am living proof of it. I have not needed religion for 8 years now and I'm doing much better than when I believed in god. Religion holds humanity back there is little redeeming value in it end of statement.

Now you can keep presenting the same argument over and over again and gain nothing or you can keep reading and gain some insight on how your opinion is not the only one! You might think you can keep beating us over the head with it but it will never stick because it is simply just not true!

I think I have just realized what this "hate religion" attitude is.  I have been out of touch for much too long.  This must be Militant Atheism that I am encountering.  I have certainly heard of it, but I have never encountered it.  And what has happened here is that the belief in God has been shed only to be replaced by a belief that religion must be eradicated.  And since this belief believes it is under attack,  it logically turns into hate.  My 50 years as an atheist has been a process of shedding more beliefs and while trying unsuccessfully to re-attach myself to other beliefs, I have finally reached a point where I exist more within a framework of assumptions.  So now I will narrow my statement.  Should we continue here or go back to a new post?  MILITANT ATHEISM IS NOT RATIONAL!

[Desdinova]

I wouldn't call it militant atheism.  It's just that some people believe the world would be a better place without religion.  Oh, and BTW, I have come to the conclusion that you are not a troll.  You have my apologies.  But as you said, you do need to polish your internet etiquette as you say.  We have so many theists come on here just to antagonize us that we have developed a defense mechanism that tries to weed them out.  That's probably not a good thing.

[Mike Cl]

You need to lighten up, Mike.  You are becoming too personal.  You should know by that I am fairly oblivious to insult.  I would prefer you revert back to your more enlightened viewpoints.

Probably.  But all you do is make pronouncements as though you are the expert on each and every point and so much the expert that discussing things with the natives is way too below your station in life.  You are as bad and misguided as the theists that visit this place--you spew forth pronouncements and refuse to give any reasons other than you just said it.  Apparently you have never met a reason that did not confuse you.

[Givemeareason]

Probably.  But all you do is make pronouncements as though you are the expert on each and every point and so much the expert that discussing things with the natives is way too below your station in life.  You are as bad and misguided as the theists that visit this place--you spew forth pronouncements and refuse to give any reasons other than you just said it.  Apparently you have never met a reason that did not confuse you.

Sometimes there has not been anything to discuss.  Such as my argument that hating religion is not part of atheism.  I don't see anyone confronting me on this.  I think I am supposed to believe that everyone is bored with me.  That's actually a good way to avoid something you don't want to face.  That allows us to continue with our beliefs without having to face them.  Religion does it all the time.

[Givemeareason]

I wouldn't call it militant atheism.  It's just that some people believe the world would be a better place without religion.  Oh, and BTW, I have come to the conclusion that you are not a troll.  You have my apologies.  But as you said, you do need to polish your internet etiquette as you say.  We have so many theists come on here just to antagonize us that we have developed a defense mechanism that tries to weed them out.  That's probably not a good thing.

Yes, weeding out the trolls is probably a natural defense mechanism.  Since this is my first atheist board, do trolls normally come here with creationist crap, moral judgements or what?

[Desdinova]

Yes, weeding out the trolls is probably a natural defense mechanism.  Since this is my first atheist board, do trolls normally come here with creationist crap, moral judgements or what?

Yes, they come here all the time.  Look at the ban list or the purgatory thread if you want to see examples.  Although there are no live ones in captivity at present.

[Mike Cl]

Sometimes there has not been anything to discuss.  Such as my argument that hating religion is not part of atheism.  I don't see anyone confronting me on this.  I think I am supposed to believe that everyone is bored with me.  That's actually a good way to avoid something you don't want to face.  That allows us to continue with our beliefs without having to face them.  Religion does it all the time.

With my posts there has always been something to discuss.  You keep say this----"that hating religion is not part of atheism"......why???? You NEVER address why you say that--not reason 1, yet.  Partly it's true---and partly it's not.  Atheism is 'about' only one thing--the lack of a belief in god/gods. Period.  Many atheists hate religion, but not all and you don't have to hate it to be an atheist.  I hate it.  But I hate organized religion, not personal religion.  Any and all organized religions are about one thing--power.  And that usually includes money.  All the holy books and all the rules of god and all the trappings involved in organized religion means they will be destructive and that only one thing matters--the gathering and keeping of power.  Can you name me any organized religion for which what I just said is not true?????  Ever?????  This is something to discuss.  But are you going to fart out again??????