Is Atheism an open minded viewpoint?

[Termin]

We are both still amoebas.  What' our next step if we don't first go extinct?

  Next step for what ?

[Givemeareason]

  This question is not relevant to the topic at hand which was.

   It is never logical to begin with an unsubstantiated premise.

I agree but it happens all the time.

[Givemeareason]

  Next step for what ?

Our identities right below our names is that of an amoeba.  What will we evolve into next?

[Desdinova]

The big questions (Why am I here, etc.) remain unanswered.  Some people like to have everything spelled out for them.  Religion gives them that.

So we need religion to give meaning to life?  And religion does that by what?  Saying that if we live our lives according to some book of rules we will be rewarded with a trip to heaven?  Can we break those rules there?  Can I smoke weed?  Get drunk? Have sex?  Laugh at dirty and irreverent jokes?  Be gay?  Nope.  I get to worship for eternity a being I have never seen, doesn't seem to care about us and whose own book describes as petty, jealous and quick to anger.  So people need this to give meaning to their lives?  Give me a break.

[Termin]

I agree but it happens all the time.

Perfect example :)

[Givemeareason]

So we need religion to give meaning to life?  And religion does that by what?  Saying that if we live our lives according to some book of rules we will be rewarded with a trip to heaven?  Can we break those rules there?  Can I smoke weed?  Get drunk? Have sex?  Laugh at dirty and irreverent jokes?  Be gay?  Nope.  I get to worship for eternity a being I have never seen, doesn't seem to care about us and whose own book describes as petty, jealous and quick to anger.  So people need this to give meaning to their lives?  Give me a break.

Of course it is stupid and ridicululous.  But yes, that is exactly what some people need.  Have you ever spoken to a fundamentalist Christian?  I don't know why atheists even bother hanging out at religious boards.  I guess it's entertaining trying to make them look stupid.  But they don't listen.  The atheists always come out looking like the fools from the religious perspective.

[doorknob]

Have you ever spoken to a fundamentalist Christian?  I don't know why atheists even bother hanging out at religious boards.  I guess it's entertaining trying to make them look stupid.  But they don't listen.  The atheists always come out looking like the fools from the religious perspective.

I don't know I guess they do it for the same reason christian come here to preach at us. And I don't necessarily think it's foolish to reach out to Christians. I was a christian too for many years it just took awhile for things to sink in for me. I think it can sink in for them too maybe. It's worth a try any how.

I don't know that atheists look like fools. Christians usually have piss poor  arguments so when they get angry they just ban the atheist.

[aitm]

The vast majority of atheists were believers before, the difference for most of us, is simply, we actually decided to read the book(s) with a critical mind. After that, holy crap, what a bunch of fucking stupidity…arguing that it is in anyway not that, is disingenuous and really..really pretty stupid.

[GSOgymrat]

And do you think you have become more open minded from becoming atheist?

I'm convinced every god ever conceived, every religion and anything supernatural is complete nonsense... but I'm really open minded.

[Hydra009]

Civilization is global.  The majority are still superstitious.  Wouldn't it be easier to influence irrational superstitions first and then move on to tearing down the greatest religion in the world.  That is what we are doing.  Progress is being made.  Some of us atheists just need to grasp the bigger picture.

You talk like irrational superstitions haven't already been influenced.  Centuries of secularism is one such example.  However, that's not enough.  Ultimately the bedrock of faith and dogma must be torn down.  Pampering people's "need" for superstition doesn't help the process.  The bigger picture is a world that doesn't "need" religion.

[Hydra009]

I'm convinced every god ever conceived, every religion and anything supernatural is complete nonsense... but I'm really open minded.

I'm of the opinion that this stuff is mistaken.  But I'm open-minded in the sense that if any religious tenet can be empirically verified, then I will readily switch my views.

The people who believe this stuff on faith and are forbidden to doubt the core tenets of their religion strike me as the truly close-minded ones.

[trdsf]

Going further religion is compatible with sound logic and critical thinking since we have no way to disprove God.

This is precisely what makes religion incompatible, broadly speaking, with logic and critical thinking.  In the religious view, their god is either impervious to rational exploration, or is ever more awkwardly stuffed into all the places that there isn't a generally accepted scientific or rational explanation (the 'god of the gaps').  It amounts to special pleading, and/or moving the goalposts by continually redefining what's meant by 'god' over time.

Now, it is possible for a set of religious belief to be internally consistent -- but consistency does not imply reality, or even rationality.  It's completely consistent to say 1) All cats are black, 2) Morris is a cat, therefore 3) Morris is black.  That's completely consistent... and has no bearing whatsoever on reality, where not all cats are black.

There are any number of fictional works that are placed in quite internally consistent settings (or that have been retconned into some semblance of consistency when they grew past their creator's expectations, not having been planned as a consistent whole from the beginning), but they're still fiction.

Some of them even manage to maintain a certain consistency while being explicitly non-rational -- Douglas Adams' view of the universe, for example.  The more absurd it got, the more normal and appropriate the absurdity seemed.

So I wouldn't confuse internal consistency with logic and critical thinking.  They're not always the same thing.

[SGOS]

Does open minded mean that a person is willing to believe any and all ideas irrational or not?
Is a person close minded if he categorically rejects the idea that elephants telepathically communicate with Martians?

Can we even say there is any virtue in being open minded?  How is the term defined?  The more I think about this, the more meaningless and useless open or close mindedness becomes.

The major strength of science is that it puts thinking in a box of a controlled environment.  It disqualifies ideas outside that box.  Such ideas are the irrational, the irrelevant, and those which are not falsifiable.  Such close mindedness is the virtue of science.  So we really can't say close mindedness is bad.

On the other hand, religion does not disqualify the irrational, the irrelevant, and the falsifiable.  Any idea is open to celebrated approval, except those that are not.   There is no way to separate real from unreal, except by authoritative pontification of a self appointed or widely recognized guru.  Religion is neither open or close minded.  In fact, the issue of open or closed becomes totally irrelevant.

[GSOgymrat]

Can we even say there is any virtue in being open minded?  How is the term defined?  The more I think about this, the more meaningless and useless open or close mindedness becomes.

The major strength of science is that it puts thinking in a box of a controlled environment.  It disqualifies ideas outside that box.  Such ideas are the irrational, the irrelevant, and those which are not falsifiable.  Such close mindedness is the virtue of science.  So we really can't say close mindedness is bad.

I agree, which is why when people bring up being open-minded I enjoy saying I'm not. Open-minded and closed-minded are poorly defined terms and overgeneralize how people process ideas. People are more receptive to ideas that fit with their values and view of how the world works and less receptive to ideas that contradict their values and views. Whether someone is receptive or not depends on the person and the idea. Being open to every idea isn't necessarily good and there is value in skepticism.

For those who are truly open-minded I have crystals that absorb negative emotions at very reasonable prices.

[SGOS]

I agree, which is why when people bring up being open-minded I enjoy saying I'm not.

It was actually your post awhile back that got me thinking about meaning and value of "mindedness".