Suicide Squads 'new' Jared Leto Joker

[Munch]

Not to copy what the amazing atheist has done already, but since its come out now, I just wanted to bring it up and see everyones thought on it.

After great adaptations of the joker from Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, and of course the iconic voice work of him by mark hamill, they now release the up coming suicide squads version of the joker...



And.. just... why....

I mean, okay, in terms of any movie and its creators artistic licence, they can do whatever they want with the characters since its their project.

But as a long time comic book nut, who grew up on shows like batman the animated series, and who got into comic books before that, there is something that needs to be said about creative licence vs character status in terms of what people know of those characters.

Comic book characters have always been recognizable figures, you know spiderman when you see him with the red webbed mask, you know wolverine from the curved mask and claws, you know captain america from the red white and blue spandex armor, or batman for the dark leather and bat ears, or superman for the red cape, dark hair and S on his chest.
Point being, fictional characters are iconic in appearance and actions, and while they are often retold in different styles and actions, the writers and artists always put thought into those designs to keep them in line with what people regard as those characters, so they are instantly recognizable.
Even with the grim dark take on the joker with heath ledger, you knew it was him, with the costume, white face paint and green hair.

Okay, maybe Leto might surprise us with his performance, because to me, the joker is one of the most iconic comic book characters, along with batman himself and superman, so if he could pull off a disturbed, menacing performance, maybe this could work, but as TJ said, I feel more like I'm looking at a street thug from grand theft auto more then the clown prince of crime.

[Aroura33]

Yeah, this "modern" take on the joker I just a big NO for me.  I've played the video games on top of seeing the cartoons, reading a few comic books, and all of the movies (good and bad).
Hell, I prefer Jack Nickolsons take than what this looks like.  Heath ledger was brilliant....just like a sociopath reallywould be. 

I hate it when an IP is run into the ground this way.  :(

So, how do you all feel about the proposed female Thor then?  lol

[Munch]

So, how do you all feel about the proposed female Thor then?  lol

please don't remind me -_-

[Shiranu]

Female Thor = Awesome, and makes sense.

This Joker = Marlyn Manson. Meh.

[Munch]

Disagree with female thor making sense, its just marvel trying to appeal to a demographic by fucking up decades of a pre standing character. If they want more impowering female characters, make new ones, don't alter present ones so they are not even the same character anymore.

[Shiranu]

Disagree with female thor making sense, its just marvel trying to appeal to a demographic by fucking up decades of a pre standing character. If they want more impowering female characters, make new ones, don't alter present ones so they are not even the same character anymore.

Thor can be anyone, so if Green Lantern can be black I don't see why Thor can't be a woman. And it's not "fucking up" a character, it's not like Thor will never come back... it's just a temporary gig.

Did people also throw such a hissyfit when Robin died?

[Munch]

Thor can be anyone, so if Green Lantern can be black I don't see why Thor can't be a woman. And it's not "fucking up" a character, it's not like Thor will never come back... it's just a temporary gig.

Did people also throw such a hissyfit when Robin died?

Yes, anyone who picks up his hammer can have his power. But as the actual character goes it simply isn't thor, its just some made up new character carrying around his hammer. As someone else pointed out, even wonder woman has picked up thors hammer, but it didn't make her thor, and the fact that even with this made up female character carrying thors hammer, Thor still exists as a character in the universe, meaning she isn't thor, the guy with the axe he's using in place of the hammer is the real thor.

As for green lantern, there are countless green lanterns, but again its the character who the story is focused on as that green lantern that makes them fan favorites. There is only 1 superman, and even if they tried to make some others, clark kent is always will be superman, peter parker will always be spiderman, logan will always be wolverine, and bruce wayne will always be batman, it doesn't matter it someone else puts on the costume, its not the same character.

Anyway, rant over, new joker design sucks.

[missingnocchi]

What about Flash? There have been many Flashes. You can say you only consider the original to be the true Flash, but remember, that's not Barry Allen, but Jay Garrick. Robins change as well, so has Spider Man, and tons of other characters. Even if you don't like that trend, I don't see why it's a big deal that they applied it to Thor as well.

As for the new Joker, remember that people seriously hated on the Heath Ledger design when it was first revealed. I'm not going to make any judgements about it until I see it in action. I don't think it's going to be good, but that's because it's a DC movie, not because of the costume.

[stromboli]

So everyone here can understand
I say it loud, I don't stammer
If someone's going to play with my hammer
I'd rather it be a woman than a man

Green Lantern was my youthful hero
they made a movie that royally sucked
Ryan Reynolds career is slightly fucked
but it all adds up to zero

If you are emotionally involved
with comic books, might be the problem
might reconsider your involvement-
there, problem solved. 

[PickelledEggs]

Source

[drunkenshoe]

Disagree with female thor making sense, its just marvel trying to appeal to a demographic by fucking up decades of a pre standing character. If they want more impowering female characters, make new ones, don't alter present ones so they are not even the same character anymore.

To create an original female character from scracth is very difficult. Very risky. If you create a female super hero, you need to come up with a covincing permise explaining why she is super and can beat up guys, super villains...etc.  On the other hand, Thor is a god. That's why he has super powers, not because of a lab accident or an experiment or technology. He can easily be changed in to a goddess.

Everyone would like a femake Loki though I bet. *Rolls eyes.

[Mike Cl]

Two female goddess would be Valkyrie and Frigga.  And a third, and my favorite, would be Nanna.  I like it because that is what our grandchildren call my wife.  They had no idea that that was the name of the Norse goddess of joy and peace.  I think it's fitting. :))

[Munch]

To create an original female character from scracth is very difficult. Very risky. If you create a female super hero, you need to come up with a covincing permise explaining why she is super and can beat up guys, super villains...etc.  On the other hand, Thor is a god. That's why he has super powers, not because of a lab accident or an experiment or technology. He can easily be changed in to a goddess.

Everyone would like a femake Loki though I bet. *Rolls eyes.

Point is, Thor isn't just a god, he's a character, taken from Norse myth, a male character the same as Odin being male and as you say Loki. Marvel hasn't used the whole 'human form donald blake' premise for decades, since Thor is his own character, and even is someone else is using that power, its still Thor himself that power belongs to, as the norse myth would have it.

And its not that hard to make good female characters, Harleyquin is a much liked female character, more so by fans when she splits herself off from the joker. Storm is one of my fav x-men because of her character, and if a male storm stepped it, it be the same with me, I don't give a shit if they say 'he's the same character with her powers', bollocks, Ororo Munroe is storm and nobody else.

And like say, if they were so intent on making female thor, why would then feel the need to keep the real Thor around with her using her hammer? Its not a replacement character, its done as emasculation, most likely because of what lead to him losing his hammer to begin with. Writers trying to be ironic "Hey, what would it be like if Thor couldn't lift his own hammer?" Which is why I won't take this character seriously.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Can't say I care for it.

[drunkenshoe]

Point is, Thor isn't just a god, he's a character, taken from Norse myth, a male character the same as Odin being male and as you say Loki. Marvel hasn't used the whole 'human form donald blake' premise for decades, since Thor is his own character, and even is someone else is using that power, its still Thor himself that power belongs to, as the norse myth would have it.

I don't get what you mean by 'Thor isn't just a god, he's a character'. I meant that the god quality is an easy source of super powers. Of course he is a character, the new one will be a character too. They are all characaters.

And its not that hard to make good female characters, Harleyquin is a much liked female character, more so by fans when she splits herself off from the joker. Storm is one of my fav x-men because of her character, and if a male storm stepped it, it be the same with me, I don't give a shit if they say 'he's the same character with her powers', bollocks, Ororo Munroe is storm and nobody else.

No, it's very hard to make a good female character, because as the traditional comic genre based on action, people are already not interested in female characters -generally in many genres- esp. not in this genre. So it is not profitable to begin with. If it was easy or profitable they would have created a dozen. It's a money machine. Storm is a bad example. She is one of the characters in the X-men world which has many heroes and heroines. She exists as a part of a team. She is not a lone standing super heroine got into the team.

You need to create a lone standing female character which is risky as much as it is hard, because you need to create her on page first. It should sell, there should be a fandom and then it would be a movie. Who buys that sort of comic books mostly? Boys and men. How do they want to see a superheroine. Preferably, as a 2 meter leggy blonde with huge 3 tits, as naked as possible, beating men up on high heels and making crazy sex with other heroes. Yes, I am being hyperbolic, but you got the idea. They also wouldn't do something like that in this let's create powerful female characters trend. (Something I am happy about.)

Again we are back to what I said up there. It's needed to be more convincing for a female character to have super physical powers than a male one for obvious reasons. First of all they are females. They are anti-hero characters by definition. So they require a detailed, clever plot. A male character can get away wih many weird, negative qualities and be lovable, a female one can't. It's a very delicate balance. She needs to be beautiful, but not too girly; attractive, but not too sexy; what will be her real identity? What will she wear. Male characters do not have these problems to this degree. He needs to have a reason to be a hero. That's it. What's our heroine's reason to dress up and save the world? She is a hot chick. What does she want more? In the end to reach a female character most people would like is,lol almost impossible.

If you make her challenging, untraditional free spirit -as she should be- those fucktard parents who drags their 8 year old daughters from beauty pageant to beauty pageant, sexualisig them prematurely at every opportunity would stand up and shout 'HEY that's a BAD ROLE MODEL for our girls!' Yeah that's what would happen with an original, good, powerful female character.

And like say, if they were so intent on making female thor, why would then feel the need to keep the real Thor around with her using her hammer? Its not a replacement character, its done as emasculation, most likely because of what lead to him losing his hammer to begin with. Writers trying to be ironic "Hey, what would it be like if Thor couldn't lift his own hammer?" Which is why I won't take this character seriously.

You realise what you are saying is that you don't like the story and will dismiss the new character, because you percieve it as a castration of a Marvel hero, right?