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New Star Wars

Started by kilodelta, April 25, 2015, 12:32:28 AM

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trdsf

Now, I have seen 'Revenge of the Sith'... sort of.  I have actually never seen it normally; I have however seen the Backstroke of the West version.  Which apparently was bootlegged in China, translated into Chinese, then had English (Engrish?) subtitles re-dubbed back in... but apparently via machine translation.  Which leads to the line "They're all over me!" being dubbed... er, well, as below:



I found the subs far more entertaining than the movie.  :)
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

trdsf

Quote from: SGOS on May 04, 2015, 06:24:35 AM
I don't remember so much depth and substance to the original Star Wars.  I remember Chewy communicating through various modes of bellowing.  There was a cool bar scene, and some people slid down a trash chute and were attacked by a giant octopus thingy.  I remember first noticing an actor, Harrison Ford, who seemed like the only real person in the movie.  And the bad guys wore white armor.  White armor!  What's up with that?  I went to the second movie, but didn't get much out of it, and never followed the rest.
None of them are what I'd call high art, but they were a great deal of fun.  Lucas had just recently finished reading Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces and deliberately leaned on all the tropes therein.  The advantage that the first movie had over the other two (and while I still like it best) is because Lucas had no idea at the time that he was creating anything that would be successful, so he just threw himself into it.  After that, though, it became a high-dollar franchise to be protected, and while production values became slicker and the scripting became tighter, it lost a lot of the sense of fun that pervaded the first movie.

As a side note, these are not science fiction stories.  They're very much a Cambpellian monomyth that happens to be set in a science-fictional setting, but there's really no part of the story that requires that setting.

Meanwhile, as a lover of good parody, this: the Star Wars trilogy radio play... read by: Billy West, Tara Strong, Maurice LaMarche, John DiMaggio, Kevin Conroy, Jess Harnell and Rob Paulsen.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

SGOS

Quote from: trdsf on May 04, 2015, 07:28:21 AM
The advantage that the first movie had over the other two (and while I still like it best) is because Lucas had no idea at the time that he was creating anything that would be successful, so he just threw himself into it.
I remember an interview with a couple of cast members many years ago, although I can't remember which cast members they were.  They said they had no idea the movie would turn out to be so huge.  No idea at all.  They said they were just putting together a bunch of stuff without any clue where it would end up.  And indeed, sometimes movies just flop, so I believed them in the interview.

Hydra009

#18
Quote from: SGOS on May 04, 2015, 06:24:35 AM
I don't remember so much depth and substance to the original Star Wars.
There's not.  It's basically a monomyth story with a scifi backdrop.  But it excelled in basically every way that movie can.  Good characters.  Decent plot.  Amazing visuals.  Fantastic music.  And a very bizarre but interesting setting.

QuoteI remember Chewy communicating through various modes of bellowing.
I actually really liked the fact that most aliens do not speak english and often the audience doesn't even get subtitles, showing that the characters can't even understand what they're saying.  If Chewie or Jabba spoke english, their scenes would've been the lesser for it, imho.

QuoteI remember first noticing an actor, Harrison Ford, who seemed like the only real person in the movie.
He's the only one who reacts to events as the audience would, that's for sure.

QuoteAnd the bad guys wore white armor.  White armor!  What's up with that?


It does make a strange sort of sense.  They're peacekeepers.  They're not trying to blend in, they're trying to stand out.  And compared to the  locals, they usually do.  The locals usually wore tan or black clothes.  In fact, I can't recall anyone wearing much white except for the stormtroopers.

Now, in the actual battles, camo is important.   For Hoth, the white comes in handy as camouflage.  Endor, not so much.

QuoteI went to the second movie, but didn't get much out of it, and never followed the rest.
I liked the second one the most.  :(

aitm

I never knew anybody who hated lil ewoks....wow...saddened I am by this.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

trdsf

Ewoks represent a couple problems for the Star Wars universe to me.

First off, in my mind, they mark the line between the series being a story to be told, and a franchise to be protected, marketed and heavily exploited -- not saying everyone else doesn't do that, just to be clear, but they looked to me like the character design was not meant to have plot significance, but rather to hit the shelves in their plush millions the day the movie opened, if not sooner.

Second, does no one else find their bloodthirstiness a little disturbing, especially embodied in something explicitly designed to be cute and cuddly?

Third, it made no sense.  The original plan for the movie would have seen essentially the same action on Chewbacca's homeworld, which structurally would have fit better.  It was a character and a character type the audience was already familiar with, and already represented as a sort of warrior race (or at least as being very tough with a comparable reputation).  It was already structurally built in to the narrative, and Lucas peed it down his leg.

Instead, midget furballs who came out of nowhere miraculously are able to take down the Empire's best (who were never good shots to begin with anyway).  It's like it was written by J.K. Rowling -- revealing the deus ex machina in such an obvious way that you already know how it has to end, once they went down that path, and the only variables are what happen on the way there.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

kilodelta

Quote from: trdsf on May 04, 2015, 06:45:25 PM
Third, it made no sense.  The original plan for the movie would have seen essentially the same action on Chewbacca's homeworld, which structurally would have fit better.  It was a character and a character type the audience was already familiar with, and already represented as a sort of warrior race (or at least as being very tough with a comparable reputation).  It was already structurally built in to the narrative, and Lucas peed it down his leg.


Yes. Kashyyyk would have made so much more sense than Endor. The wookies would have been used by the Empire as cheap builders (slaves). Since Chewbacca was technically proficient in his own way, the use of wookies to build the Death Star would have seemed logical.
Faith: pretending to know things you don't know

stromboli

In retrospect you can tear it apart, but it never was high art to me. I grew up on the Lone Ranger and Gene Autry oaters, so to me as a sci fi fan it was closer to old west gunslinging than anything. Up until the second series with the back stories about where Darth Vader came from and so forth, I think Lucas was just basically telling an old west style story. I think the original threesome should have been left alone, but whatever. Money is money, and Lucas obviously knew he had a cash cow after Star Wars hit big.

Hydra009

#23
Quote from: trdsf on May 04, 2015, 06:45:25 PMThird, it made no sense.  The original plan for the movie would have seen essentially the same action on Chewbacca's homeworld, which structurally would have fit better.  It was a character and a character type the audience was already familiar with, and already represented as a sort of warrior race (or at least as being very tough with a comparable reputation).  It was already structurally built in to the narrative, and Lucas peed it down his leg.

Instead, midget furballs who came out of nowhere miraculously are able to take down the Empire's best (who were never good shots to begin with anyway).
This.  So much this.

And I'd add that the stormtroopers were disappointingly inept.  And it's really bad for your story to have inept villains.  You want villains that are a credible threat to the heroes, and these guys just aren't it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raF9wfPxir8

Anyone feel like our heroes were in danger in that scene?

Obviously, they can't just gun down Luke and co, but can't they give our protagonists a run for their money?  I mean, they're built up as this formidable military (there's even a line from Obi Wan talking about their precision) and they fight like complete pushovers for most of the films.  The ewok thing was just the ultimate humiliation.

If they fought more like they did on Hoth, the rebel victory would've been that much sweeter.

trdsf

Quote from: stromboli on May 04, 2015, 09:11:01 PM
In retrospect you can tear it apart, but it never was high art to me. I grew up on the Lone Ranger and Gene Autry oaters, so to me as a sci fi fan it was closer to old west gunslinging than anything. Up until the second series with the back stories about where Darth Vader came from and so forth, I think Lucas was just basically telling an old west style story. I think the original threesome should have been left alone, but whatever. Money is money, and Lucas obviously knew he had a cash cow after Star Wars hit big.
No, it never was high art -- you're not going to confuse any of the Star Wars movies for Citizen Kane, or Battleship Potemkin, or even 2001: A Space Odyssey.  It was a rollercoaster ride, and it was a great one.

And that's fine, I love a good rollercoaster ride of a movie.  I just wish Lucas had remembered that's what he made.  And if there's one thing I wish he'd learn, it's to leave things the fuck alone, or at least quit trying to play Winston Smith at the Ministry of Truth and pretend that the old versions don't exist.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

stromboli

Quote from: trdsf on May 05, 2015, 04:56:48 AM

I just wish Lucas had remembered that's what he made.  And if there's one thing I wish he'd learn, it's to leave things the fuck alone, or at least quit trying to play Winston Smith at the Ministry of Truth and pretend that the old versions don't exist.

Right. Looking at what came after, I have the opinion that he realized he'd walked into a gold mine and did whatever he could to mine more gold. Any time they scream sequel I'm pretty sure that is the main motivation.

You mentioned some of my favorite movies, esp. Battleship Potemkin. Maybe we should do a favorite movies thread.

trdsf

Quote from: stromboli on May 05, 2015, 07:25:26 PM
You mentioned some of my favorite movies, esp. Battleship Potemkin. Maybe we should do a favorite movies thread.

Done.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

DeathandGrim

I'm really interested. I haven't read EU though but the Star Wars series always entertains me
You argue with a god of death?

We all make bad decisions.

"Born Asian -- Not born this way"

kilodelta

#28
I'm reading the Darth Bane series now. It's turning out to be one of the best Star Wars yet. It's up there with the X-wing and the Grand Admiral Thrawn series.
Faith: pretending to know things you don't know

kilodelta

This guy would be awesome in the new movies:



(Grand Admiral Thrawn)
Faith: pretending to know things you don't know