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Standing up on flag for civil rights

Started by Draconic Aiur, April 26, 2015, 02:52:35 AM

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Draconic Aiur

I got into a argument with a veteran and his tea party shithole about a video of a man that stood on the American flag.

http://wdtn.com/2015/04/24/man-standing-on-american-flag-causes-uproar-at-wright-state/
QuoteFAIRBORN, Ohio (WDTN) â€" A crowd gathered at Wright State University Friday afternoon after a person threw an American flag on the ground and stood on top of it.

The student got lots of attention on campus for expressing his beliefs in a way many see as disrespectful.

Wright State student Will Kellul says he’s a friend of the person who started the protest, and says he shares the same opinion.

“What he did was he started out standing on an American flag and I joined in because I stand for the same thing. Equality and diversity and justice as a black man,” Kellul said.

Kellul said throughout the day people took the message they were trying to send in different ways.

“There were many men that did take offense and they were like, ‘whoa, that’s my flag!’ What we’re saying is, it’s our flag. The fact is, we’re taking our pride down to stand on that flag,” Kellul said. “t’s everyone’s flag and we’re going to take our pride down so you can hear our message.”

Maxx Myers goes to Wright State and says the demonstration grabbed the eyes and ears of many across campus and online. Myers says a friend sent him a picture of the protest.

“My initial reaction when I saw that photo was the person is expressing their feelings and how they feel towards our liberty,” Myers said. “I don’t feel its the correct way they should have expressed themselves.”

After posting the initial story online, viewers took to the 2 NEWS’ Facebook page, leaving comments both in support and in anger of what the student did.

Christina Fetter-Frost commented, “It’s a sign of disrespect, no matter what anyone says.”

Erin Bertolini wrote, “It’s a shame we live in a country where we have more respect for a flag than we do basic human rights like free speech.”

“We should recognize that anybody, no matter how big or how small their voice might be, has a right to Freedom of Speech and this is their way of speaking how they feel about the issues. It’s not a good way to speak about it but it’s their word,” said Maxx Myers.

Wright State University responded to the protest and said in a press release, in part:
“Wright State University is sincere in its respect for our country and for what the flag represents. As a university we recognize the act of standing on the flag as an extreme display of disrespectâ€"especially to our men and women who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces and who sacrificed to protect these rights.”

It goes on to say: “We are proud of all of our students who exercised restraint and maturity in the face of positions that challenged their deeply held beliefs.”

According to the American Civil Liberties Union, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the right to desecrate the flag as part of the Constitution’s protection of speech.

The Convo:

trdsf

Quote“It’s a shame we live in a country where we have more respect for a flag than we do basic human rights like free speech.”
THIS.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

SGOS

Quote“Wright State University is sincere in its respect for our country and for what the flag represents. As a university we recognize the act of standing on the flag as an extreme display of disrespectâ€"especially to our men and women who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces and who sacrificed to protect these rights.”

Yeah right, drag the "men and women who have served in the Armed Forces" into the fray.  I don't really see how standing on the flag has anything to do with those people, except that it gets the America Uber Alles flag wavers all teary eyed.

The flag is a symbol of the country.  Standing on the flag symbolizes disrespect for the country's policies.  and to Christina Fetter-Frost:

Quote“It’s a sign of disrespect, no matter what anyone says.”

You betcha!  It's a sign of disrespect, and sometimes for very good reasons.

stromboli

As a man who served this country in the military and worked for the DOD, I stand up for his right to stand on the flag or burn it. Symbolic protest is an act allowed by civil rights and I'll agree to that a lot faster than venerating a piece of cloth instead.

Aletheia

Ah... the conservative right with its idol worship.
Quote from: Jakenessif you believe in the supernatural, you do not understand modern science. Period.

aitm

Unfortunately, that flag is for many the very personification of the whole sum of their childs life. Those many who died at the request of our government are now forever symbolized to them through that flag. As much as I agree that we can wipe our ass with it if we wish, it would be best done in private. For those who wish to display there displeasure of the government by "assaulting" the many whose sons and daughter are indeed the blood of the red stripes and the blue of heroism, like any free speech, they have the same to rebuttal and for many, rebuttal cannot be done with words for they have little capacity for that.

"Free" speech is not really free at all, it is very very dangerous.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Draconic Aiur

Childs life? When? The 1960's? When people and I quote "of color" were treated very poorly.

Solitary

People react to symbols in the most irrational ways. Look what happened to the artist that did the piss Christ with Christ in a bottle of piss. Look how people reacted to the Red, White, and Black Swastika to go after Jews, and how now they are so irrational about hating the same symbol now. And what are the greatest symbols in the world? Religious, Patriotic, and sex and nudity, when all you see is breast on a woman and a bird nest. Poor Bruce Jenner the gender bender. People love him or hate him. Fuck labels and abstract symbols, they mean nothing really, and just a lightning rod for bigots and irrational people.  :angel:  :fU:  :syda: :flowers:  Solitary
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

aitm

Quote from: Draconic Aiur on April 26, 2015, 04:06:25 PM
Childs life? When? The 1960's? When people and I quote "of color" were treated very poorly.

when….and if…..you ever have a child, they will still be a child whether 5 or 35.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Mike Cl

“Wright State University is sincere in its respect for our country and for what the flag represents. As a university we recognize the act of standing on the flag as an extreme display of disrespectâ€"especially to our men and women who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces and who sacrificed to protect these rights.”

The irony of these statements always make me shake my head.  Our sons and daughters died so we would be free to expresses ourselves...............like being able to stand on the flag in protest.  But don't use those rights that have been won with their blood because that would show disrespect.  Tell me again why our sons and daughters have died.................????
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Termin

 I'm not American so maybe it's not my place to say

A He has the right to stand on the Flag , as long as it is his Flag.
B It is disrespectful.

A should  always trump B imho.

C It may not be the smart thing to do, I don't think flag burning or standing gets the attention it once would have , and you run the risk of drumming up support for the opposition, or losing it based on it.





Termin 1:1

Evolution is probably the slowest biological process on planet earth, the only one that comes close is the understanding of it by creationists.

aitm

Quote from: Termin on April 26, 2015, 07:44:49 PM
I'm not American so maybe it's not my place to say

A He has the right to stand on the Flag , as long as it is his Flag.
B It is disrespectful.

A should  always trump B imho.

C It may not be the smart thing to do, I don't think flag burning or standing gets the attention it once would have , and you run the risk of drumming up support for the opposition, or losing it based on it.

I agree, but as I said previously, many people don't see the flag as a symbol, it is the very blood and honor of their dead child. Poo-poo their feelings all you want in the name of freedom of speech, but you do so at your own risk when dealing with people who have that mindset.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust


Feral Atheist

The flag is just a icon, nothing more, and it needs to be used to communicate the status of this country.

Right now with our government doing it damnest to strip our rights and freedoms, our flag does not deserve respect, or at least no more respect than our government respects our freedoms and rights as guaranteed by the documents that founded this country.  For the clueless, that would be the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution.
In dog beers I've only had one.

SGOS

The essence of our country is a body non material ideas, written down in the constitution, which is trampled on by politicians, patriots, and zealots much more than our flag.  Some obsessed ideological groups will trample all over our essence, but get all bent out of shape when someone fucks with our flag.  It's an odd set of priorities, but then they have odd sets of perceptions.