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Is death negative?

Started by Contemporary Protestant, February 22, 2015, 04:24:47 PM

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peacewithoutgod

Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on February 22, 2015, 04:24:47 PM
Is death a bad thing? I have mourned the loss of friends, family, and mentors. But is death negative.

The premise being death is ceasing to exist; silence, peace, the end, or whatever you want to call it.
It's negative for those of us who must live without those who are missed, but it's as much the necessary machinery of life as birth when it keeps populations sustainable. As for me, I don't dread my own death so much as I fear the misery of a declining, painful, and increasingly dependent life which has unfortunately been the way of it for most who have gone before in my family. Death itself is a relief from all manner of pain and suffering. Not everyone can be prosperous, and some will suffer terribly from their disadvantages -  this is the cruel way of natural selection, but at least there is no evidence to believe that the losers are further punished after death. In death, all of us are equal, no matter how the living treat your corpse - no smugness, and also no regrets.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Baruch

Even for ancient Egyptians, equality in death, was considered Hell.  You were supposed to keep your status in the afterlife, comparable to the one you had in this life.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

AllPurposeAtheist

Without death the earth might become slightly over crowded ..The only solution then would be to put an end to birth.
As it is now we have both birth AND death going on at the same time.  Is that any way to run a planet?
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on November 02, 2015, 07:59:39 AM
For me, it's not about saving the world.  I just don't want to be lying on my death bed feeling like dumb ass because I couldn't figure out what the point of my life was.  If you go out struggling with such a simple question, you've probably missed a shit pot full of good things you could have done.

People don't come with an instruction manual.  Parents are not always helpful.  But yes, one can answer such a simple question.  I have, though it took me 50 years.  There are way too many distractions.  Experience living and struggling with the lives of other people, is part of the necessary input.  You can answer your own version of this question too.  Every little bit of salvation (the secular kind) helps.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: AllPurposeAtheist on November 02, 2015, 11:07:56 AM
Without death the earth might become slightly over crowded ..The only solution then would be to put an end to birth.
As it is now we have both birth AND death going on at the same time.  Is that any way to run a planet?

According to evolution ... yes.  Your body is just a means for your gonads to produce more gonads ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

AllPurposeAtheist

I probably sound uncaring, but in the case of my dad's wife, an utterly useless human being who wouldn't lift a finger to do a damned thing for herself much less anyone else and who since marrying my dad has made his life about as miserable as anyone can I just don't see the downside to death. Unfortunately she'll probably outlive him only to make everyone who has to take care of her lives even more miserable.
Don't get me wrong. I don't wish her any harm, but if she were to expire in her sleep today I wouldn't lose one bit of sleep over it.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

AllPurposeAtheist

Quote from: Baruch on November 02, 2015, 11:10:52 AM
According to evolution ... yes.  Your body is just a means for your gonads to produce more gonads ;-)
I've long since given up on the idea of producing new gonads. I produced two that I know of and that was over 30 years ago.  Oddly enough those gonads grew arms and legs and one of them never grew even one gonad.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Deidre32

Quote from: Baruch on November 02, 2015, 06:54:58 AM
Deidre32 ... my apologies for choice of words in my implication.  And I still hope for a clarification.  Like Jeopardy, I should have phrased as a question ;-)

So what is a person's potential?  I don't know except on an individual basis, and not even then ... it is a mystery to me.

So what does it mean to "not live up to"?  This is a mystery to me also.  I take this personally, as the father of a handicapped child.

Though we are both in agreement, that in general we hope the best in individual self development for everyone.  If life not fully lived is .. hell ... then relative to some arbitrarily high standard, we are all in hell.

But I agree, that feeling sad for those who have passed ... because their story has ended, and they won't have further opportunities ... is genuine and shared ;-)

It's okay.

I meant that we shouldn't hold ourselves back...by fear. Most people hold themselves back due to fear than actual circumstances. And that's a sad reality if we get to the end of the road and we are lucky to live to be 100, but spent a lifetime not living to our potential. Potential being ...not holding one's self back from opportunities that present themselves, due to fear. I could have elaborated lol So there you go. Hope that clarifies what I meant. :)
The only lasting beauty, is the beauty of the heart. - Rumi

Baruch

Yes ... that was not only a good clarification, but I agree.  My primary help I can give my daughter, who lives too far away from me to give her a hug, is to help her overcome fear of her handicap and fear of failure.  Fortunately she is working hard on both of those.  She isn't the most worst off person by any means ... but life has already been harder on her than it was on me growing up.  My responsibility for both negative and positive aspects of that .. is a gauge to my present action.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Deidre32

Quote from: Baruch on November 02, 2015, 07:18:37 PM
Yes ... that was not only a good clarification, but I agree.  My primary help I can give my daughter, who lives too far away from me to give her a hug, is to help her overcome fear of her handicap and fear of failure.  Fortunately she is working hard on both of those.  She isn't the most worst off person by any means ... but life has already been harder on her than it was on me growing up.  My responsibility for both negative and positive aspects of that .. is a gauge to my present action.
((hugs)) You sound like a good dad.
The only lasting beauty, is the beauty of the heart. - Rumi

Mahmoude

We are all dying every single moment of our lives. At least part of us is as some cell is dying and something else is being born. I do not know how that can be bad. And death itself is really a mirage. Better call it transformation than death as none of the component elements actually disappear!
I believe in a God that does not exist!

Mike Cl

Quote from: Mahmoude on November 20, 2017, 02:53:51 PM
We are all dying every single moment of our lives. At least part of us is as some cell is dying and something else is being born. I do not know how that can be bad. And death itself is really a mirage. Better call it transformation than death as none of the component elements actually disappear!
Something critical to me dies when I do--otherwise I'd never die.  Just because one has all the components of something does not mean one has that 'something'.  Things must be combined correctly for that 'thing' to exist.  And death is not just a transformation--it is death---period. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Unbeliever

Quote from: Contemporary Protestant on February 22, 2015, 04:24:47 PM
Is death a bad thing? I have mourned the loss of friends, family, and mentors. But is death negative.

The premise being death is ceasing to exist; silence, peace, the end, or whatever you want to call it.
I don't see "death" as negative at all. It is, after all, the default state that we all came from, and will all return to. It may not be fun, but it isn't negative, in my opinion.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Mike Cl

Quote from: Unbeliever on November 20, 2017, 05:43:49 PM
I don't see "death" as negative at all. It is, after all, the default state that we all came from, and will all return to. It may not be fun, but it isn't negative, in my opinion.
Not negative--it just is. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mahmoude on November 20, 2017, 02:53:51 PM
We are all dying every single moment of our lives. At least part of us is as some cell is dying and something else is being born. I do not know how that can be bad. And death itself is really a mirage. Better call it transformation than death as none of the component elements actually disappear!

Can't give you a like yet.  No Intro.  But I am quoting you, and giving you a ... kudo!

Yes, the notion of life and death, are oversimplifications.  But for most ape men, we can't get too complicated about things.

BTW - G-d is a verb, not a noun, a Becoming, not a Being ... and that fits in exactly with what you just wrote.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.