Anti-Vaxers - They are everywhere!

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Seeing that this thread has been necroed, I will add my piece. Anti-vaxxers are scum. I have ended long held friendships with people who turned out to be anti-vax. As an autist, it is really fucking insulting that vaccines causing autism (which they fucking don't), is somehow worse than dying of disease. I'm not much for the government forcing things, but fuck it, force vaccines. Fuck personal choice when millions of lives are at stake.

[Hydra009]

I'm not much for the government forcing things, but fuck it, force vaccines. Fuck personal choice when millions of lives are at stake.

You'd deprive people of their right to get their friends and family sick with potentially lethal disease?  That's sounds pretty totalitarian to me.  I mean, what's next?  That we mandate that kids go to school or that people in cars wear seatbeats?  What sort of future are we leaving to our not-dead-of-preventable-disease children?

[The Skeletal Atheist]

You'd deprive people of their right to get their friends and family sick with potentially lethal disease?  That's sounds pretty totalitarian to me.  I mean, what's next?  That we mandate that kids go to school or that people in cars wear seatbeats?  What sort of future are we leaving to our not-dead-of-preventable-disease children?

Shit, I might even make it so people can't dump industrial chemicals in rivers.

[Baruch]

Not speaking of any poster here.  But hypochondriacs would establish a medical dictatorship like in Brave New World ... and that would be a cure worse than the disease ;-(  Reasonable patients going to reasonable providers using reasonable procedures and medicines ... given that what works with one patient won't work with another ... that is the best we can do.  Medicine can get better over time also in all respects.  A bacteriaphobe like Howard Hughes would make us all convert to Mormonism so he would feel protected ;-)

Not all pandemics can be prevented, but most can be suppressed, and it is worth doing so.  But we know that today, outbreaks are where this is poverty and war and ignorance.  You won't get better medical social results, as long as those other things are neglected.

[Fickle]

Not all pandemics can be prevented, but most can be suppressed, and it is worth doing so.

I agree however the same people who call for forced vaccinations also demand antibiotics for every little thing because their pussies. They believe drugs will solve all their problems and now the experts say within 5-10 years all antibiotics will be ineffective against most all of the new strains. The flu vaccine has also become partially ineffective, 15-40%, because it's mutating faster than new vaccines can be created and dispersed.

Do you see the pattern?, I mean only a blind man could not see the pattern here. We have created this problem through our own ignorance and when antibiotics fail in the near future most are literally screwed. Not to mention the fact the same experts also say cancer and diabetes will reach epidemic proportions within 10-15 years. Now let's suppose that things are getting better as many suggest then why is everything going so terribly wrong?. More and more diseases are becoming stronger as more and more drugs are becoming less effective, do the math.

I think as more people crowd into the cities the problem will get progressively worse and mother nature is going to spank them. They say pollution now kills more people than all diseases combined which is why I live on a farm with miles of open space and fresh air. The city is the last place on Earth I want to be and I would never live there no matter how much anyone paid me.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I agree however the same people who call for forced vaccinations also demand antibiotics for every little thing because their pussies. They believe drugs will solve all their problems and now the experts say within 5-10 years all antibiotics will be ineffective against most all of the new strains. The flu vaccine has also become partially ineffective, 15-40%, because it's mutating faster than new vaccines can be created and dispersed.

Do you see the pattern?, I mean only a blind man could not see the pattern here. We have created this problem through our own ignorance and when antibiotics fail in the near future most are literally screwed. Not to mention the fact the same experts also say cancer and diabetes will reach epidemic proportions within 10-15 years. Now let's suppose that things are getting better as many suggest then why is everything going so terribly wrong?. More and more diseases are becoming stronger as more and more drugs are becoming less effective, do the math.

I think as more people crowd into the cities the problem will get progressively worse and mother nature is going to spank them. They say pollution now kills more people than all diseases combined which is why I live on a farm with miles of open space and fresh air. The city is the last place on Earth I want to be and I would never live there no matter how much anyone paid me.

If you think an imperfect solution is better than no solution, feel free to walk into a diseased population. I'm sure you'll survive, seeing as you're not a "pussy." As for me, I've had enough experience with Swine Flu to know that any chance I have of not getting it again is a chance I'm willing to hedge money on.

[Mike Cl]

I am very glad smallpox is eradicated and really hope it stays that way. I am, however nervous about some long-frozen bodies in Siberia that are in danger of surfacing because of climate change. Could they refresh the planet's supply of smallpox now that everyone under 50 is unvaccinated? But I digress.

I read a comment this morning about how measles is "no big deal" and that families should let their kids go to "measles parties" and get it over with.

I think chicken pox and measles are getting crossed here. Meh, what's the difference? A spotty virus is a spotty virus, right? Now don't forget to douse yourself in hand sanitizer, Billy. You don't want to get GERMS.

I used to think that chicken pox was not big deal.  And it wasn't when I had it.  But then, I developed shingles--and that was a very, very big deal.  That is hands down, the most pain I've ever felt.  Miserable on a good day.

[Fickle]

If you think an imperfect solution is better than no solution, feel free to walk into a diseased population. I'm sure you'll survive, seeing as you're not a "pussy." As for me, I've had enough experience with Swine Flu to know that any chance I have of not getting it again is a chance I'm willing to hedge money on.

I think it's going play out like the space shuttle.
-we have a problem with the O rings
-we have a problem with the O rings
-we have a problem with the O rings
-BOOM
-Houston we may have a problem

So your experience with swine flu relates to the predicted antibiotic,cancer, diabetes pandemic how exactly?. You know a rock once fell on my foot but I'm not afraid of rocks nor do I wear steel toed boots... I stay away from falling rocks.

[chill98]

Hard to follow video, but reflective of the typical arguments surrounding vaccines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxGqusSlZ2c

Agree or disagree, there is some interesting stuff going on out there.

New York Times article referenced in above video:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/science/scientists-ponder-the-prospect-of-contagious-cancer.html?_r=0

SV40 is real:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40

PubMed 1999- CONCLUSIONS:These data suggest that there may be an increased incidence of certain cancers among the 98 million persons exposed to contaminated polio vaccine in the U.S.; further investigations are clearly justified.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10472327

PubMed 2004 - quote from article: During the last decade, numerous published studies from independent laboratories, using different molecular biology techniques, have demonstrated SV40 large tumor antigen (T-ag) or DNA in primary human brain and bone cancers and malignant mesothelioma...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC452549/

The anti-vaxers can be extreme, but there are points of truth in some of their concerns.

[Hakurei Reimu]

What does SV40 have to do with poliovirus? They're not even in the same family. Indeed, it suggests that we need to vaccinate against SV40, too.

[chill98]

What does SV40 have to do with poliovirus? They're not even in the same family. Indeed, it suggests that we need to vaccinate against SV40, too.

I provide links for a reason.

Paragraph 2 in wiki link --  SV 40 is real...

quote: SV40 discovery revealed that between 1955 and 1963 around 90% of children and 60% of adults in USA were inoculated with SV40-contaminated polio vaccines.

Sentence 1 (of 2) in Paragraph 3 of Wiki link
quote:  SV40 was first identified by Ben Sweet and Maurice Hilleman in 1960 when they found that between 10-30% of polio vaccines in the USA were contaminated with SV40

Hilleman is a noted scientist you can look up on your own.  Anti-vax supporters link to this often:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13QiSV_lrDQ

[Baruch]

Everything we do is risky.  Vaccination is risky, not vaccinating is risky.  People usually have very poor estimations of risk.  Maniacs think that all risk can be eliminated, or that risky things will go away if we just put our fingers in our ears and go "la la la".

Doctors know this too ... but they aren't in any conspiracy to foist bad medicine/vaccines on people ... that is the job of the drug companies ;-)  Insurance companies are the real heroes ... they want to make sure patients don't get any medicines ... because it costs them money.

[Hakurei Reimu]

I provide links for a reason.

Paragraph 2 in wiki link --  SV 40 is real...

quote: SV40 discovery revealed that between 1955 and 1963 around 90% of children and 60% of adults in USA were inoculated with SV40-contaminated polio vaccines.

Sentence 1 (of 2) in Paragraph 3 of Wiki link
quote:  SV40 was first identified by Ben Sweet and Maurice Hilleman in 1960 when they found that between 10-30% of polio vaccines in the USA were contaminated with SV40

Hilleman is a noted scientist you can look up on your own.  Anti-vax supporters link to this often:

I watched. The problem is that this video adds in shit that Hilleman categorically did not say. He did not say that SV40 was in any final preparation of the Sabin virus. They were in the Russian field trial vaccines. But that's as far as the contamination went, as one of Hilleman's projects at Merek was to eliminate or inactivate that SV40 contamination.

While there may have been contamination of SV40 in some of the vaccines, this is a long way from saying that there were live viruses in them, nor does it say how bad the contamination was and by what. Fragments of proteins (still identifiable as SV40 derived but hopelessly broken up) is going to be much less concern than a whole, intact, live SV40 virus.

Yes, fair enough, there may have been some contamination. But there is a difference between contamination and causation. There has yet to be a definitive study that detects any expected "bump" in cancer incidence anywhere in people who received contaminated vaccine. Contaminated vaccine, I may point out, that was made using crude methods that are not used nowadays. Vaccines now are almost surely pure.

[Mermaid]

I provide links for a reason.

Paragraph 2 in wiki link --  SV 40 is real...

quote: SV40 discovery revealed that between 1955 and 1963 around 90% of children and 60% of adults in USA were inoculated with SV40-contaminated polio vaccines.

Sentence 1 (of 2) in Paragraph 3 of Wiki link
quote:  SV40 was first identified by Ben Sweet and Maurice Hilleman in 1960 when they found that between 10-30% of polio vaccines in the USA were contaminated with SV40

Hilleman is a noted scientist you can look up on your own.  Anti-vax supporters link to this often:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13QiSV_lrDQ

This happened at the dawn of vaccines. It does not happen anymore.

[chill98]

The source(s) of contemporary SV40 infections is (are) unknown, but it is presumed that the virus is being transmitted among humans. These serological and molecular findings, coupled with numerous tissue culture studies that have demonstrated that SV40 can replicate in human cells (2), prove that SV40 is able to infect humans. These data suggest, additionally, that SV40 should be considered infectious for both monkeys and humans.
SV40 DNA has been detected in human tumours in numerous independent studies (2,24), with the most commonly involved cancers being paediatric and adult brain tumours, mesotheliomas andosteosarcomas

http://www.who.int/bulletin/archives/78%282%29195.pdf

Is Cancer Contagious? NPR

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88131574

discover mag:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2012/05/09/16-of-cancers-are-caused-by-viruses-or-bacteria/#.VuYElG4ppVI