are omniscience and free will compatable

[Milleby]

Is it possible for god (or any being) to have free will AND omniscience. Do these two qualities create a paradox?

[the_antithesis]

Luke Skywalker: "As my father used to say, 'What?'"

[Milleby]

Well, I'm wondering if these two qualities create a paradox. You see, it seems to me that if a being has omniscience, that that would entail that they know all of the actions they will take in the future which would imply that they are subject to fate, which would in turn mean that they cannot have free will.

I'd really like to discuss this with an atheist here who is well versed in philosophy. Is there anyone here in the community that you guys might suggest I reach out to?

[stromboli]

 

[aitm]

Is it possible for god (or any being) to have free will AND omniscience. Do these two qualities create a paradox?

Here is a far more interesting paradox. Can something that has always existed, have knowledge of things that have yet to exist, without knowledge that they could exist or what they are, or what they do, until he creates it, knowing what he is creating for the very reason he is creating it, yet not knowing what it is because it never existed prior to him creating it?

[Milleby]

Sure, I'd love to discuss that paradox too at some point, but for the time being I'd like to focus on the one that I've currently put forth as I'm thinking of using it in an essay I have to write and I want to make sure that the argument holds up well. At some point in this discussion I'd like to be able to put it into a syllogistic format: Premise 1, Premise 2, Premise 3... And get a good feel for any objections one might raise to the argument.

[Milleby]

In fact, Russell Glasser wrote an interesting article about what I'm talking about here: http://kazimskorner.blogspot.com/2007/09/paradox-of-omniscience-and-free-will.html

What do you guys think of it? I'm wondering what potential objections an apologist might raise to this argument and how one might respond to them. I imagine that such arguments might be similar in nature to those posted here:

http://philosophiesofmen.blogspot.com/2010/12/omniscience-free-will-paradox.html

This is an apologetic article that addresses a slightly different paradox - that of god's omniscience and MAN'S free will.

What do you guys think?

[aitm]

It that case I would say, of course not. Gods don't exist.

[Sal1981]

Is it possible for god (or any being) to have free will AND omniscience. Do these two qualities create a paradox?

In one word: no.

I don't have a fancy syllogism for it, but the rundown is that if you're omniscient, you will also know, beforehand, what choices you will make, as well as any alterations you will make to your present choice-making (which means this being will know before it changes its mind about a choice, what that change will be), this renders any idea of free will useless/incompatible with omniscience.

Besides, free will & omniscience apart from one another are internally inconsistent.

[aitm]

In one word: no.

I don't have a fancy syllogism for it, but the rundown is that if you're omniscient, you will also know, beforehand, what choices you will make, as well as any alterations you will make to your present choice-making (which means this being will know before it changes its mind about a choice, what that change will be), this renders any idea of free will useless/incompatible with omniscience.

Besides, free will & omniscience apart from one another are internally inconsistent.

True dat. The babble states that ole god was disappointed that his experiment wasn't working and he drowned everyone instead of just making better humans in the first place…proof he is not omniscient. The babble also states old god was disappointed in David when he banged Bathsheba and cursed the kid…again another sign of non-omniscience. The babble is full of shit where ole god is proven to be incompetent, signs that little minds wrote little words to make big impression of littler minds.

[Milleby]

Hmmm... I guess for my purposes it doesn't matter either way, but, let me ask, is anyone aware of Bible passages that would suggest that god has free will?

There's all kinds of stuff bullshit in the bible pointing to god's omniscience, but finding something that suggests he has free will is a bit tougher, it doesn't seem to directly state that. Are there any Bible passages that you guys are aware of where god does something that would REQUIRE him to have free will?

[Milleby]

In fact, from the standpoint of the christian worldview, what would the implications of god NOT having free will be?

Wouldn't that mean that we're more free than god? What other implications do you guys see in this?

[SNP1]

An omniscient god would know what actions it would take at any time in the future, so said god would not be able to have free will. If said god did something outside of what it knew it would do, then said god is not omniscient.

Besides, this also runs into a problem of if omniscience itself is a coherent idea and not incoherent garbage.

[Sal1981]

Hmmm... I guess for my purposes it doesn't matter either way, but, let me ask, is anyone aware of Bible passages that would suggest that god has free will?

There's all kinds of stuff bullshit in the bible pointing to god's omniscience, but finding something that suggests he has free will is a bit tougher, it doesn't seem to directly state that. Are there any Bible passages that you guys are aware of where god does something that would REQUIRE him to have free will?

google is your friend.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/omniscience

http://www.openbible.info/topics/free_will

They don't use "omniscience" and "free will" phrasing specifically, but both are hinted at.

[SGOS]

This topic comes up often.  I don't know why, since it's irrelevant.  There is no reason to attribute characteristics like personality traits, hair color, or omniscience to something that offers no evidence for it's existence.  It's jumping the gun, isn't it?

I suppose you can say "There is something in the universe that knows everything that will happen."  But there is no foundation for this claim.  It is no more valid than saying "There is nothing in the universe that knows everything that will happen."