The Matrix, Descartes, and why I'd take the blue pill.

[PapaSmurf34]

At this moment everything seems real. I have no reason to believe that what I see around me is not reality. Now let's assume I am told that this is all just a simulation and I am told if I take the red pill I will wake up in the real world where humanity is living and hiding underground and constantly being hunted by robots. Let's assume I take the red pill and wake up in the real world. I would think to myself "here I am in a world full of robots controlling humanity just like I was told about and everything seems perfectly real to me." But then I would have to remember that up until I took the red pill everything seemed perfectly real to me in the previous world I was in. The only difference between the "real" world I'm in now and the "matrix" world I was just in is that someone told me this world is the real world. But for all I know the person who has offered me the pill was actually a malicious person who wants me to suffer and actually hooked me up to a simulation of a post apocalyptic future and that the previous world I was in was the real one. If I have already accepted the premise that mankind has been enslaved by aliens and all of life as we know it is a simulation why then could I not accept the second scenario in which the person giving me the pill is actually lying and putting me in a simulation? Both seem equally as likely and I clearly can't tell the difference between what is reality or not since I just awoke in a new "reality" that feels just as real as the old one. How could I ever be sure? According to Descartes famous phrase "I think therefore I am," the only thing I can be absolutely certain about is that I exist and that I am a thinking thing. In this scenario, then, the only thing that I can be sure of is that I exist as a thinking thing and that in one world I was a thinking thing that experienced a life of general happiness and comfort and in the other world I am a thinking thing that experiences a life of general misery and discomfort and is in constant fear. Therefore the best option for me is to take the blue pill and stay in the "matrix" and continue to live a life of happiness and comfort.

[stromboli]

We can only judge our surroundings based on criteria we learned growing up, or were taught. Theories of the universe being a hologram and other possible realities are being examined, but for the present we live in a world based on our present sensory input. We've had some long running debates on the nature of reality, but at the end, it is what we can sense and define in a material way that must be considered reality.

That we can, as a group, share that same reality lends more credence to a solid, material world. But the field of Quantum Mechanics suggests some new possibilities, so the jury is still out. Whatever reality you decide upon that allows you to function as you see fit, would be a good reality to accept.

[bennyboy]

We've all taken the blue pill, I think.  For example, as an idea, we accept death.  As a personal reality, I think most of us don't really see it.  How could I?  I'm the center of the world.  Everything I see is seen by me.  Everyone I interact with is interacted with by me.  At the core of my reality is the idea that I matter.

What if I could sit in a cave and wipe away all these illusions-- not just through word of mouth, but in a deeply-ingrainted, ego-invalidating sense?  What would be left?  Not me.

Because I AM the myth of the self.  Taking away the myth is tantamount to suicide.

[Shiranu]

We've all taken the blue pill, I think.  For example, as an idea, we accept death.  As a personal reality, I think most of us don't really see it.  How could I?  I'm the center of the world.  Everything I see is seen by me.  Everyone I interact with is interacted with by me.  At the core of my reality is the idea that I matter.

Because I AM the myth of the self.  Taking away the myth is tantamount to suicide.

I cant even get my head around the concept of thinking myself the centre of existence...

[bennyboy]

Really?

Let's say you heard that someone in a city you've never visited was going to be killed tomorrow.  Then let's say you heard that you were going to be killed tomorrow.  Which one would seem more of a loss to you?

[aitm]

The problem with this and all similar scenario's and that no one seems to be willing to add to the simulation is, why would the law of conservation be dismissed?

If indeed we are being "harvested" or "slaved" for whatever reason and the beings were capable of giving us alternate realities, why all of "THIS"? How much simpler if we are in a reality where we are worms and live in the dark ground? All this stuff? What for?

[Desdinova]

The problem with this and all similar scenario's and that no one seems to be willing to add to the simulation is, why would the law of conservation be dismissed?

If indeed we are being "harvested" or "slaved" for whatever reason and the beings were capable of giving us alternate realities, why all of "THIS"? How much simpler if we are in a reality where we are worms and live in the dark ground? All this stuff? What for?

Maybe our captors learned long ago that we generate more energy or taste better if we are mentally healthy.  And that if we are just comatose worms, we tend to die off faster, or don't taste as good.

[aitm]

Maybe our captors learned long ago that we generate more energy or taste better if we are mentally healthy.  And that if we are just comatose worms, we tend to die off faster, or don't taste as good.

well that would just mean mental gymnastics but nothing that would promote vascular health. I cannot think that the human body could get any worse or better if it thought it was running a marathon among skyscrapers or crawling through the dark earth avoiding the dreaded "worm killers" it in reality it was paralyzed.

[Aroura33]

I agree IRL.
The movie however, they do make a point that those that are even offered the pills usually already have a sense that what they are experiencing is NOT really reality.  If I felt like I was in a simulation and someone offered me a way to reality, I'd probably take it.  If I felt like I was already living a real life, then I would reject it.  Make sense?

To the OP. I love your forum name!  I still call my dad Papa Smurf and he's almost 70. :)

[Unbeliever]

At this moment everything seems real. I have no reason to believe that what I see around me is not reality. Now let's assume I am told that this is all just a simulation and I am told if I take the red pill I will wake up in the real world where humanity is living and hiding underground and constantly being hunted by robots.

At this point, you demand proof. You turn on your bullshit detector and see what the evidence is for the truth of the claims made. You don't just take the red pill, or you get what you deserve.

According to Descartes famous phrase "I think therefore I am,"

Actually, what he said was "I doubt, therefore I think; I think therefore I am."

Just FYI

the only thing I can be absolutely certain about is that I exist and that I am a thinking thing. In this scenario, then, the only thing that I can be sure of is that I exist as a thinking thing and that in one world I was a thinking thing that experienced a life of general happiness and comfort and in the other world I am a thinking thing that experiences a life of general misery and discomfort and is in constant fear. Therefore the best option for me is to take the blue pill and stay in the "matrix" and continue to live a life of happiness and comfort.

Well, we can only approach Truth asymptotically, but I think that before thinking comes experiencing, of which thinking is a subcategory, I suppose.


Oh, and it helps us read your posts if you don't write them in large blocks. It helps if you cut them into smaller chunks.


Thanks!

[Shiranu]

Really?

Let's say you heard that someone in a city you've never visited was going to be killed tomorrow.  Then let's say you heard that you were going to be killed tomorrow.  Which one would seem more of a loss to you?

If we are going by value being the sign of "centre-ness"...then there are people who I have never met that, if they died, I would feel that a much bigger loss has been made then if I myself were to die. They have not personally effected me in anyway yet I feel their death would be much sadder and more tragic than my own.

This does not make them the centre of the universe though, just another part of it.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Wasn't the whole point of taking the red pill about fixing the world so you don't need the blue pill to stay happy?