The Myth Of The Tiny Radical Muslim Minority

[pr126]

If Obama, Cameron et al would correctly state on the TV that ISIS is acting according to the Quran and sunna, and it is Islam in it's purest form, and they have been doing so since 622 CE, what would be the next logical conclusion?

[josephpalazzo]

If they want to use their freedom as Westerners, they should 'go home', even if they've lived here for generations, eh? I am so tired of the 'if you have a problem with something here, leave' non-argument.

Yep, if you're so tired and so unhappy, you can leave. Millions have acted on this, otherwise immigration wouldn't exist. 

[Poison Tree]

If Obama, Cameron et al would correctly state on the TV that ISIS is acting according to the Quran and sunna, and it is Islam in it's purest form, and they have been doing so since 622 CE, what would be the next logical conclusion?

That ISIS and others would use it as recruitment propaganda and proof that the west is at war with and wants to destroy Islam and, therefore, it is the duty of every Muslim to join war in defense of their faith.

[pr126]

That ISIS and others would use it as recruitment propaganda and proof that the west is at war with and wants to destroy Islam and, therefore, it is the duty of every Muslim to join war in defense of their faith.

That is happening already. 
We keep lying,  but this is only deferring the inevitable.
Ultimately it will end in total war.  That is the logical conclusion.
That is, if we want to preserve our way of life.  Let's not forget our progeny. It is their future too.

[pr126]

This is real Islam, as is written in the Quran and sunna. ISIS follwing the perfect man (Muhammad)

Quran 33:21

Pickthall
Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much.


  Here

[doorknob]

I don't care how it sounds from what I've seen Islam is not a peaceful religion. Especially in the middle east where you can find countless stories of religious inspired violence. I'd go on but I can't get into it now.

[SGOS]

Ultimately it will end in total war.  That is the logical conclusion. 

I that is where this eventually going.  I don't see any way to avoid it.  I'd like to think I'm wrong.  Hopefully I am, but I have this gut feeling that sometime in the next 100 years, there will be a war, a big one, nothing like the Bush thing at all.  There will be clear winners and losers.

[StupidWiz]

I that is where this eventually going.  I don't see any way to avoid it.  I'd like to think I'm wrong.  Hopefully I am, but I have this gut feeling that sometime in the next 100 years, there will be a war, a big one, nothing like the Bush thing at all.  There will be clear winners and losers.

Hopefully I won't be here anymore when that happens.

[Green Bottle]

Quote''
I have this gut feeling that sometime in the next 100 years, there will be a war, a big one,

I think so too, and it might happen a lot sooner than that.
But as you say lets hope not, but it just seems to be how things are going with all these ''minor conflicts''going on, it would just take one incident to cause a serious escalation of violence and that would be it, WW3.

In fact im fucking surprised it hasnt happened so far.......

[Hakurei Reimu]

Hakurei Reimu wrote:I am not sure that the families of the victims would be happy with your analogy.

The truth is not a kind thing, sadly.

But,   it was an act of god.   Here:

Sura 8:17 Pickthal

Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

Like killing in God's name is any better.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Hmmm, doesn't look like the Bible's any better in terms of calling for the death of unbelievers and blasphemers...

[pr126]

Hakurei Reimu wrote:

...

Miko, find yourself a hobby, stop following me!
(Is it an OCD, or something personal? In either case you need counseling.)


Your quoting the bible is a tu quoque. Christians do not act on it. But Muslims do follow their scriptures.
BTW, you forgot to mention the crusades, inquisition, witch hunts, burning at the stake. -

FYI, Muslims and Islam apologist use the same arguments.
It does not make Islam look any better. It only serves as a diversion, not a defense.

The bible stories are   descriptive, while the Quran is prescriptive, i.e. a divine command, the immutable word of Allah, valid for all times.

Christianity Is Just As Bad

[Berati]

It is inevitable that in any condemnation of Islam, someone will state that christianity is just as bad. I have no idea how this relates to the conversation. It's like telling someone about your mother dying of bone cancer and they then tell you you shouldn't worry about it because colon cancer is worse.

I suspect that this is a misplaced attempt at combating racism but I would like to hear from anyone who has made this comment recently. What is it you think you are proving?

I'm not trying in any way to be confrontational. I really would like to hear the motivation/reason behind defending Islamic violence with Christian violence.

[josephpalazzo]

Most likely these people are saying that most religions have a darker side, and in the US, christianity is the dominant religion, therefore it is offered as a comparison with Islam. On a logical base, I agree it has no place when Islam is under scrutiny. Islam should be judged on its own.

[Berati]

Most likely these people are saying that most religions have a darker side, and in the US, christianity is the dominant religion, therefore it is offered as a comparison with Islam. On a logical base, I agree it has no place when Islam is under scrutiny. Islam should be judged on its own.

You make a good point. I'm in Canada and we don't have anywhere near the overt christianity you have in the U.S.
I can see why you would want to remind a christian complaining about Islam that his own religion has done some very dark things. However, this reminder makes no sense to me when discussing the problems caused by islam on an atheist website with other atheists.

I brought up race as a possible explanation because of what Ben Affleck (and many other liberals) point to when islam is criticized. They say it is "racist" to lump all Muslims together when claiming that islam is violent, xenophobic and misogynistic. (which it clearly is)
Of course, everyone else is quick to point out that islam is not a race. And yet liberals continue to make this same mistake over and over and it is a very dangerous mistake to make. If you conflate islam and race, you are automatically giving islam the protections against criticism that it does not deserve.
Islam is an ideology (a set of ideas and beliefs) not a race and criticising ideas, even insulting them, is the very soul (no pun intended) of a free and open society. Liberals are on the wrong side of this issue and are falling in line with islamic apologists. Here are some examples.

Bill Maher was invited to give the commencement speech at UC Berkely, but after the Ben Affleck incident, he has been uninvited by the student association because he is a "racist". This from a liberal university?? The administration of the University is trying to override the students, but its unclear at the moment if he will still be speaking or not.

Also, I had a post on The Economist website deleted just last week because the moderator said it was a violation of their terms. I was replying to an article that was making the point that religious diversity in Mecca has disappeared since only Muslims are allowed into the city. Here was my comment:
“Perfectly in accordance with Islam.
The most hated person in the Quran is the "unbeliever". Over and over and over the "unbeliever" is vilified throughout the quran. How else would you expect followers of the quran to behave?”

Think about the chilling effect on the conversation that liberals, who should know better, are having here. I've seen many signs held up at islamic rallies that say "Behead those who insult Islam". Well, it sure looks to me that liberals are now saying "remove the tongues of those who insult islam"
It doesn't help that they are accomplishing this figuratively rather than literally.

[pr126]

The racist label is used to shut people up.

Islam is not a race, it is an ideology.

And since people of many colors and ethnicity's are joining this toxic ideology, the label is not only inaccurate, it is logically absurd.

The answer is to the person using this label is to "define racist".