Reading the Bible

[Munch]

Someone needs to make a list of 101 uses for the bible.

Heres one.



If the only use for the bible is as an example for how people are lead on by fairy tales and bad morals, all you need to do is watch the news about whatever is happening in the middle east

[stromboli]

I read the Bible twice, once as a Mormon in Seminary and once as a Christian in a bible reading challenge. Bottom line it said different stuff the two times, because different people emphasize different shit. There are arguments both for and against speaking in tongues, for example. And read sections of it exhaustively concerning gog and magog and other end times shit. It is bullshit, period.

[Mike Cl]

I read the Bible twice, once as a Mormon in Seminary and once as a Christian in a bible reading challenge. Bottom line it said different stuff the two times, because different people emphasize different shit. There are arguments both for and against speaking in tongues, for example. And read sections of it exhaustively concerning gog and magog and other end times shit. It is bullshit, period.

Yes, it is.  I like to add in textual criticism which helps identify when each line was added and what it originally said (if there are conflicting copies--there often is).  Then mix in a little higher criticism to try and figure out when each version was written, by whom and for what purpose.  Kind of like reading a detective novel.

[Solomon Zorn]

When I became a Christian, I went bananas over studying the Bible, even before I spent two years in Bible college. Right now I'm involved in a discussion on another forum about various unbelievable things about the Bible, so I've been re-reading the flood account in Genesis.

A lot of times I still like to read Ecclesiastes though. I highly recommend reading this short book. It's right near the middle of your Bible. It's where you'll find such nuggets as, "A feast is for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything."

[Mike Cl]

When I became a Christian, I went bananas over studying the Bible, even before I spent two years in Bible college. Right now I'm involved in a discussion on another forum about various unbelievable things about the Bible, so I've been re-reading the flood account in Genesis.

A lot of times I still like to read Ecclesiastes though. I highly recommend reading this short book. It's right near the middle of your Bible. It's where you'll find such nuggets as, "A feast is for laughter, and wine makes life merry, but money is the answer for everything."

So, why did you quit being a believer?  If you don't mind my asking.

[Solomon Zorn]

So, why did you quit being a believer?  If you don't mind my asking.

It was a long process, that included becoming schizophrenic. Now I include Christianity among the things I was deluded about, along with my hallucinations.

[Mike Cl]

It was a long process, that included becoming schizophrenic. Now I include Christianity among the things I was deluded about, along with my hallucinations.

Christianity and hallucinations go hand-in-hand.  But sorry to hear about you being schizophrenic.  That does not seem like an easy disease to deal with, especially in this society.

[Solitary]

What is normal? Religion is considered normal, even though it is obviously based on delusions with no concrete evidence, and to top it off we all have our delusions. There are only physical things that cause so-called mental illness. Everything that is not so-called normal is not mental illness. Neurology is still in its infancy. Psychology is still based on the antiquated idea that the mind and body are separate, when they are obviously not, or drugs and brain injuries would not effect the mind. Solitary

[Mike Cl]

What is normal? Religion is considered normal, even though it is obviously based on delusions with no concrete evidence, and to top it off we all have our delusions. There are only physical things that cause so-called mental illness. Everything that is not so-called normal is not mental illness. Neurology is still in its infancy. Psychology is still based on the antiquated idea that the mind and body are separate, when they are obviously not, or drugs and brain injuries would not effect the mind. Solitary

Normal--yeah, what is that?  I'd rather be healthy than normal.  'Normal' has a tenancy to suck.  Healthy is always--well, healthy.

It was a long process, that included becoming schizophrenic. Now I include Christianity among the things I was deluded about, along with my hallucinations.

I cannot push Richard Carrier's new book enough (On the Historicity of Jesus).  He has a couple of sections that may be of interest to you Solomon.  In chpt 4, background of christianity, element 15 he states:  "Christianity began as a charismatic cult in which many of its leaders and members displayed evidence of schizotypal personalities.  They naturally and regularly hallucinated (seeing visions and hearing voices), often believed their dreams were divine communications, achieved trance states, ..........................
            Schizophrenia results when you biological propensity to hallucinate is ramped up to such an extreme that it interferes with you ability to function.

           Accordingly, in antiquity, where schizotypals would routinely be regarded as prophets and holy men.............................."
So, you see, back in the day you would have been considered a prophet or shaman and would have been highly regarded and listened to.

later in the chapter (element 38) he mentions this:  This world view [much like Paul's] is also described by Philo, who explains that the air extends from the earth to the moon, and the earth, air and water all move, mix and change below the moon, while above all that are the unchanging heavens, where reside the true models and forms of all things, including the true animals, of which all things below the moon are just imperfect copies.  He further explains that the elements below the moon are the perceptible ones, the rest are invisible to the senses, but are themselves copies of the even more-perfect ideas of them in the mind of God.  Because god made perfect invisible copies of everything in heaven first (including a perfect invisible earth, and a perfect invisible star of which all other stars a copies, and so on), ....................................................
          .....................Philo says, 'from the model of the cosmos, perceptible only by the intellect, the Creator made an incorporeal heaven and an invisible earth, and the form of air and empty space'..............................."

So, the only people who could 'see' that invisible world of perfection that God created were those who could use the 'intellect' to see' those that had visions or hallucinations or dreams--those chosen by god to be able to do that.  And they were the ones who shaped the thoughts and rules and instructions of the religions of that time--including christianity.  i love this book.

[Solomon Zorn]

Thanks for recommending the book. I actually wrote a poem about it a while back. http://www.solomonzorn.com/crazy.html

[Mike Cl]

Thanks for recommending the book. I actually wrote a poem about it a while back. http://www.solomonzorn.com/crazy.html

I like that.  And it really does reflect what Carrier is telling us about the 'crazy' way religion is build.  He also mentions that what our society labels as 'crazy' was not so back in that culture and time.  If you were 'crazy' you must have been touched--not 'in the head', but by God.

[Solitary]

  Great poem Solomon Zorn, and so true! Solitary