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Started by MagetheEntertainer, September 01, 2014, 05:25:30 PM

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drunkenshoe

Quote from: Aupmanyav on August 23, 2015, 11:18:17 AM
Yes, Drunkenshoe. Advaita is different, and especially with my modification (we are allowed to do so in Hinduism). No God, no soul, no heaven, no hell, no karma transferring over non-existent future lives, no birth, no death, even no creation, and complete acceptance with the latest in science. Since you do not want discuss it any further, I will also stop.

Aah you fucking moron....
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

peacewithoutgod

Quote from: Aupmanyav on August 23, 2015, 11:18:17 AM
...no birth, no death, ...and complete acceptance with the latest in science.
Woo! Woooooo!!! Now that makes perfect sense! Sorry, but in all honesty how can that not be the silliest paradox of the century?
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Baruch

Science says ... everything is a quantum field/string, with no life and no consciousness.  So no birth and not death in body or in mind.  Basically the same as the Buddha's argument, which the Buddha made from only introspection ... that there is no real self ... because as Heraclitus says ... there are no constants, only change.  A self would imply something (you) are a constant.  But people insist on believing six impossible things before breakfast, even atheists.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Aupmanyav

#48
Quote from: drunkenshoe on August 23, 2015, 03:41:23 PMAah you fucking moron ..
Now, I do not appreciate that. You have signed out of the topic. That is OK. But you have no right to stop other people to continue with the topic. I am not addressing you. And kindly do not get angry, use civil language.
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

Aupmanyav

#49
Quote from: peacewithoutgod on August 23, 2015, 03:53:10 PMWoo! Woooooo!!! Now that makes perfect sense! Sorry, but in all honesty how can that not be the silliest paradox of the century?
No there is no paradox. When we are born what constitutes us of is already there, and when we die the molecules go to form other associations. Nothing dies, nothing gets destroyed. So, what is birth and what is death?
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

peacewithoutgod

s
Quote from: Aupmanyav on August 23, 2015, 10:10:18 PM
Now, I do not appreciate that. You have signed out of the topic. That is OK. But you have no right to stop other people to continue with the topic. I am not addressing you. And do not get angry, use civil language.
Much as I hate to see Drunkenshoe melting down like that, I tend to appreciate how this site is not over-moderated to discourage people from showing what they are really like. This one has had her really good moments too, and those sites which would ban overwhelmingly decent but over-stressed people the first time they break down are wastelands for human intelligence and empathy.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

peacewithoutgod

#51
Quote from: Aupmanyav on August 23, 2015, 10:17:16 PM
No there is no paradox. When we are born what constitutes us of is already there, and when we die the molecules go to form other associations. Nothing dies, nothing gets destroyed. So, what is birth and what is death?
That isn't science at all. Matter is conserved through all its transitions, but matter does not equal life. I am the dust of ancient stars which died so that this Earth could form from which life would arise - that is a nice thought, and a true one, but it is no effective denial of the fact that life begins with dead matter, and eventually returns to the same.

The question of how life should be defined has been one of the biggest subjects of debate, but if you argue scientifically (as you purport to), then you would only agree that it at very least requires an organization of molecules which can indefinitely reproduce itself down through generations. Such an organization would be you. Rocks don't do that, and this is the difference between life and death. Birth (of some sort no matter what the means) begins when new copies of existing forms are made.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

peacewithoutgod

Quote from: Baruch on August 23, 2015, 05:43:17 PM
Science says ... everything is a quantum field/string, with no life and no consciousness.  So no birth and not death in body or in mind.  Basically the same as the Buddha's argument, which the Buddha made from only introspection ... that there is no real self ... because as Heraclitus says ... there are no constants, only change.  A self would imply something (you) are a constant.  But people insist on believing six impossible things before breakfast, even atheists.
If you think like that, then breakfast must be impossible too - yet somehow I suspect you believe in it anyway :-P
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Aupmanyav

Quote from: peacewithoutgod on August 23, 2015, 10:32:33 PMThe question of how life should be defined has been one of the biggest subjects of debate, but if you argue scientifically (as you purport to), then you would only agree that it at very least requires an organization of molecules which can indefinitely reproduce itself down through generations. Such an organization would be you. Rocks don't do that, and this is the difference between life and death. Birth (of some sort no matter what the means) begins when new copies of existing forms are made.
Define life anyway you want but do not abandon or hide truth. When I die and am cremated, my bones will turn into Calcium Oxide (CaOsubcript2). When immersed in the waters of River Ganges at Haridwar (where traditionally my family immerses the bones of its dead), it will be part of the sediment. Then some day, due to tectonic shift of Himalaya, this sediment will go down into the bowels of earth and get cooked. It will come out again as a metamorphosed rock or magma/lava. Tell me, how rocks are different from life? All through life, we are nourished by vegetation or flesh which in turn is nourished by vegetation which is nourished by the minerals in the soil. It is but a chemical cycle. Life is not other than nature, just like rocks, air, water, sand, etc.
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

Aupmanyav

Quote from: peacewithoutgod on August 23, 2015, 10:57:51 PMIf you think like that, then breakfast must be impossible too - yet somehow I suspect you believe in it anyway :-P
Breakfast and its enjoyment by senses and mind also is part of this cycle. That reminds me that my wife must have completed her morning worship (the rest of my family is theist) and the breakfast must be ready.
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

Shiranu

QuoteTell me, how rocks are different from life?

While I agree with your basic premise, this one is a bit of a stretch.

Life has a sense of awareness. Rocks do not. Life has biological functions. A rock does not. Life reproduces. A rock does not.

Now, if you are using a more vague definition of life to simply mean anything that is a part of the cycle of life, death, recycle... then that makes a bit more sense, but to Westerners life has a more scientific meaning of being something that reproduces.
Every day is a good day to *remove from server* an autocrat.

peacewithoutgod

#56
Quote from: Aupmanyav on August 23, 2015, 11:07:16 PM
Tell me, how rocks are different from life?
LOL, it's what an organism does vs. what a rock does. You may be made of the same basic components as the rock, but you are not those components - you are the organization of them into a form, pre-defined by a chemically-coded system such as DNA (or in the case of ultra-primitive forms, RNA) which can replicate itself. Without such organization which defines "organism", there is no life, and even if you would dispute this you weren't around to see what happened before your birth, nor will it really be you in living form after your death.
There are two types of ideas: fact and non-fact. Ideas which are not falsifiable are non-fact, therefore please don't insist your fantasies of supernatural beings are in any way factual.

Doctrine = not to be questioned = not to be proven = not fact. When you declare your doctrine fact, you lie.

Aupmanyav

Quote from: Shiranu on August 24, 2015, 12:02:02 AMLife has a sense of awareness.
Misleading awareness with very limited senses (they miss everything but the visual spectrum and miss everything but a small portion of hearable sounds). We have been molded by nature just as a grain of sand or on a sea-shore also is molded by nature. Do not let this make you to miss the bigger picture. :D
"Brahma Satyam Jagan-mithya" (Brahman is the truth, the observed is an illusion)
"Sarve Khalu Idam Brahma" (All this here is Brahman)

CrucifyCindy

I really do not like that conciousness or self is an illusion stuff. Because obviously it is not an illusion.
“Rational thought is a failed experiment and should be phased out.”
 William S. Burroughs

حسن اÙ,,صباح - Ù,,يس هناك Ù...ا هو صحيح ØŒ ÙƒÙ,, شيء Ù...سÙ...وح به

Shiranu

Quote from: Aupmanyav on August 24, 2015, 12:35:33 AM
Misleading awareness with very limited senses (they miss everything but the visual spectrum and miss everything but a small portion of hearable sounds). We have been molded by nature just as a grain of sand or on a sea-shore also is molded by nature. Do not let this make you to miss the bigger picture. :D

Again, it all depends on what definition of life you are using. To a westerner that awareness of the small portion of reality is what differentiates the living from the dead, or the animate from the inanimate.

I am not saying one train of though is right, wrong, better or worse than the other, just helping you realize that what you are saying is something that will not inherently make sense to the western mind because we have entirely different belief systems and philosophical heritages.
Every day is a good day to *remove from server* an autocrat.