TV Series Thread

[Cassia]

I really really want to like this, but it's a bit late for comeback.  15 5 years too late.  I'm not super happy about the setting, either.

Supposedly, while most people are struggling to survive on a tribal level in shanty towns or prisons or basically medieval hilltop communities - there's an enormous community near the Great Lakes and miraculously, still with modern amenities.  Imho, it's far too clean and modern for the setting, which is gritty to the point of being quite literally centered on Grime.  The internal logic doesn't make much sense, either.  For example, how tf do you get a combat helicopter supplied and airborne and engaging targets with rocket pods in a setting where they obviously can no longer be supplied or maintained?  Bear in mind that in this setting, people are using horses because cars no longer function because gas is too scarce and/or the gasoline has gone bad (this is a real thing), farming their own food, sewing their own clothes, and making their own bullets, which aren't very good (guns have largely been supplanted by arrows or knives or good ol' fashioned spears and clubs)

This unbelievably modern community transparently exists only as a quick-and-dirty way to wrap up the series and it will likely serve the same function for the TV audience.  Imho, it should have been Grimes' community gradually reclaiming and rebuilding, but that would realistically take a long, long time.

I'll probably check it out, but I'll be amazed if they can pull this off in a believable, satisfying way.

I really really want to like this, but it's a bit late for comeback.  15 5 years too late.  I'm not super happy about the setting, either.

Supposedly, while most people are struggling to survive on a tribal level in shanty towns or prisons or basically medieval hilltop communities - there's an enormous community near the Great Lakes and miraculously, still with modern amenities.  Imho, it's far too clean and modern for the setting, which is gritty to the point of being quite literally centered on Grime.  The internal logic doesn't make much sense, either.  For example, how tf do you get a combat helicopter supplied and airborne and engaging targets with rocket pods in a setting where they obviously can no longer be supplied or maintained?  Bear in mind that in this setting, people are using horses because cars no longer function because gas is too scarce and/or the gasoline has gone bad (this is a real thing), farming their own food, sewing their own clothes, and making their own bullets, which aren't very good (guns have largely been supplanted by arrows or knives or good ol' fashioned spears and clubs)

This unbelievably modern community transparently exists only as a quick-and-dirty way to wrap up the series and it will likely serve the same function for the TV audience.  Imho, it should have been Grimes' community gradually reclaiming and rebuilding, but that would realistically take a long, long time.

I'll probably check it out, but I'll be amazed if they can pull this off in a believable, satisfying way.

All this killing of zombies is unacceptable. They are people too. They have rights and feelings. They just need affordable housing, education and health care. They are not even allowed to vote. Their leader, Jesus needs to get back down here ASAP.

[Blackleaf]

I feel like something would change a decade or so of zombies. We've seen that they do decay over time. The zombies don't last forever. And with fewer people around to become new zombies, that should mean fewer zombies overall.

Additionally, the survivors must have figured out systems that work in keeping themselves alive, so the biggest threat would be people inside the camps dying unexpectedly.

Lastly, if this zombie outbreak has affected every human on Earth, one has to develop a natural resistance to the virus eventually. That's just evolution. So eventually, you'll be left with a mostly empty world to be repopulated.

[Hydra009]

All this killing of zombies is unacceptable. They are people too. They have rights and feelings.

Hershel, is that you?  (The Whisperers take this position to the extreme, not only accepting undeath as a different form of life, but attempting to coexist by disguising themselves as zombies)

[Hydra009]

I feel like something would change a decade or so of zombies. We've seen that they do decay over time. The zombies don't last forever. And with fewer people around to become new zombies, that should mean fewer zombies overall.

Additionally, the survivors must have figured out systems that work in keeping themselves alive, so the biggest threat would be people inside the camps dying unexpectedly.

All this is true, though somehow zombies collect in herds and it seems like while their numbers do decline overall, when they do attack they attack in force.  So things don't really get easier for a long time.

Lastly, if this zombie outbreak has affected every human on Earth, one has to develop a natural resistance to the virus eventually. That's just evolution. So eventually, you'll be left with a mostly empty world to be repopulated.

Well, if it has infected absolutely everyone on earth, there is by definition no natural resistance.

And if the only harm done is reanimation after death, then there is no mechanism for evolution to work.  The main way is for heritable traits to pass on at differing rates because people with certain traits are more likely to have kids than people without such traits - but the zombie virus only takes hold after they die, long after they've already had kids.  So there's no way for the next generation to be any different from the previous one.

[Unbeliever]

Yeah, Bill Murray tried disguising himself as a zombie. Didn't work out very well.  🤣

[Blackleaf]

Well, if it has infected absolutely everyone on earth, there is by definition no natural resistance.

And if the only harm done is reanimation after death, then there is no mechanism for evolution to work.  The main way is for heritable traits to pass on at differing rates because people with certain traits are more likely to have kids than people without such traits - but the zombie virus only takes hold after they die, long after they've already had kids.  So there's no way for the next generation to be any different from the previous one.

Well, the virus is kind of odd because it behaves in two different ways, depending on how you're infected. First, everyone is infected by it because it is airborne. But when infected that way, it remains dormant until the host dies. On the other hand, if you're scratched by a zombie or something, and it gets in your blood, the virus takes effect within hours of being infected. It's almost like there are two completely different zombie viruses.

Since being bitten or scratched results in death 100% of the time, that does put a lot of evolutionary pressure on developing some sort of resistance. Zombies are the number one concern for humans everywhere, so natural selection can't just ignore it.

[Hydra009]

Like you said, it's 100% lethal every time.  If it weren't - if some people react differently than others - greatly delaying or resisting zombification - then that'd be something for evolution to act on, but there's no natural resistance.  No natural reistance, no evolution.

[Unbeliever]

Life is 100% lethal every time, so we should try to avoid it.
🤔

[Hydra009]

Well hello there you wayward sinners!  Do you like blood, violence, and depravity of a sexual nature?  Of course you do! That's why you're in hell!

But what would you say if there was a place to stay that had none of that?  Welcome to the Hazbin Hotel, a misguided path to redemption!

[Blackleaf]

Well hello there you wayward sinners!  Do you like blood, violence, and depravity of a sexual nature?  Of course you do! That's why you're in hell!

But what would you say if there was a place to stay that had none of that?  Welcome to the Hazbin Hotel, a misguided path to redemption!

I feel like it's a mistake to label the episode after the pilot "episode 1." How many are watching the show, without having seen the pilot, and they're missing the context of the actual first episode? Excluding the pilot from the episode count only makes sense when you're starting over when you start the show in earnest. The pilot doesn't seem to be on Amazon with the rest of the episodes.

That aside, I just finished episode (ugh) "1," and I liked it. I have an idea of where this series is headed already, but we'll see. Man, I'd love to see a Faux News host react to a show about souls in Hell trying to eacape, where angels are portrayed as total dicks. A show where Lucifer is shown in a sympathetic light and Lilith exists. They might just die of a heart attack.

[Hydra009]

The pilot isn't normally supposed to have so much plot stuffed into it and you're right that it's a mistake to not have that as the first thing the Amazon viewers see.  Hopefully, they'll see the youtube channel soon or already have.

I didn't particularly like the first episode, especially the voice change for Katie Killjoy and Adam's seemingly flat and revolting depiction, but it was okay.

However, the second episode was much more like what I'm used to and had some truly touching moments and great songs.

[Hydra009]

While I'm enamored with this show:
It's no secret that I'm going to the big ol' double hockey sticks, so I might as well.

My OC (don't steal) Ebony Dark'ness Dement-

Imagine a humanoid alligator - two legs, two arms, scales, big ol' U-shaped snout with a pair of spectacles resting precariously on beady little eyes.  Kind portly and awkward.

Two snakes coil around his torso, resting their heads on his shoulders.  The pair give unsolicited/unwanted advice and always differ and can never agree on even the most basic facts.  (not true)  One will always trust, the other will always distrust.  (for good reason)

This character is ever the seeker of knowledge, a book devourer in a quite literal sense.  Down the hatch and most of the knowledge is slowly absorbed, but some is always lost.  And more and more difficult to recall over time.  His time spent in hell is a seemingly endless quest for books of all shapes and sizes and the secrets held within - ultimately destroying that which he cherishes the most.  This hunger drives him towards what passes for libraries and private studies in hell - books are fairly rare in the pride ring, good quality ones rarer still.

In some dank dark cellar, he devours what could have once been a treasure trove of learning - but was now a damp and mouldy collection of tomes from some old minor noble who was nowhere to be found - exterminated or simply gone, it made no difference.  For weeks - or perhaps months - he sat in the cellar in stupor while a delirium of words and images danced in his head - half-remembered lessons on various arcane arts and demonic summoning circles.  Fascinating, but too fragmentary and indecipherable to be of any real use.

After clearing the cellar of its last word, he shambles out into the world in search of a new meal.  From the look of things, not long after an extermination.  He sees crowds gathered around the television (a noisy and worthless idiot box) pointing and jeering at a princess of hell.  Not surprising, everyone claims to be something, some lord of this, lady of that as a way to look important.  But just as he grows disinterested, she says that there's a way out of this hellhole.  Now that gets his attention.  Redemption?  Impossible.  Pure fantasy.  But...maybe she's partially right.  If there's a way in, there's a way out.  And if she knows, then it must be written down somewhere, some spell or contraption or something to tear a hole between worlds.  If only he could find it, his torment would end at last.  His life has meaning again.  Purpose again.  He would break the crimson sky into shards and use them to claw his way up to new heights - heights where he could face his accusers from a position of power.  Oh such vengeance he would unleash...

He turns the corner, nearly colliding with I.M.P.  "Hey, I'm walking here!"  Stupid imps, get outta my way, he thinks.  Can't they see I'm on a very important quest!

[Hydra009]

Now that I've had time to see and digest the first four episodes of Hazbin Hotel, I'll give you guys my impression:

The episodes are very good, they're just a bit slower in pace and a tad disjointed because there's not as much focus in the show.  The pilot was pure gold because it had a clear focus - everything is through the eyes of Charlie.  It had a very limited budget so every second of animation was important, so lots of detail is crammed in, it had a fantastic manic energy, and it did a great job of balancing dark humor with serious drama.

The amazon series is taking a bit more time to breathe and we follow different characters around, sometimes even tertiary ones which is odd so early in a series.  It's a lot less jokey - in fact the last one had to have an advisory above and beyond the normal one, so you just know it's about to get into some very dark territory.  (Hooboy did I need an adult for that one)  It has a decent overarching plot, pretty good music (though imho, nothing comes close to Inside of Every Demon is a Rainbow), and characters who might one day be dynamic.  It's just not as quotable or memeable as the pilot was.  Big things happen every episode, but it's not quite the wild ride it was before.  Still very much worth the watch, though.  And it's still very early into the first season and for many shows, that's when it's still at a rough stage.  So we'll see.

I will say that there are some very good theories floating around on the internet which explain stuff that otherwise might be written off as a coincidence or contradictory information.  Suffice it to say that I'm still very interested in what heaven is really like and in particular, the root cause of Adam's odious behavior and demon-like appearance.

I'm also very interested in how hell will develop, since apparently it is quite the hotbed of creative problem solving and it's regularly put through the wringer.  I foresee quite the arms race developing, something that was hinted at in Helluva Boss.

[Blackleaf]

Before getting into it, a YouTuber I watched said that all of the dialog was without character. That it's just people saying "fuck" every two seconds, and it could come out of anyone's mouth. Now that I've seen it, I'm like, what a bad take.

Yeah, people in Hell curse a lot. D'uh. They're demons. They're supposed to be violent, viscious, and depraved. For the most part. But to claim that the characters have no distinct character traits? What? Are we even watching the same show?

Charlie is the innocent/naive one. Even when she does curse, it comes off as feeling forced, like she's trying to fit in. She's highly empathetic. Since she's exempt from the yearly cleansings, she could easily just turn a blind eye to all the death and violence, but she instead tries her best to help people who don't even want help in the first place. We see brief glimpses of her in her demonic anger mode, but she's always calmed herself down before getting violent (so far). I wonder if she has some great power we haven't seen yet.

Angel Dust is seductive and egotistical, yet part of it at least seems to be a facade. He seems to be very loyal, sticking with those he considers his friends, doing them favors whenever they need it, though keeping them at an emotional distance.

Alastor is conniving and mysterious. His motivations are unclear. He's equal parts helpful and terrifying. Others warn against making deals with him, yet he's been very accommodating so far, even helping them make a commercial for their hotel, despite hating video as a medium. He seems to want to give the hotel every opportunity to succeed, despite expecting it to fail. Is he just bored? Is he secretly hoping it will work? Who knows?

Niffty is hyper and chaotic, reveling in violence, yet keeping it reigned in just barely. Sir Pentious is the nutty inventor. Husk is the bartender who's just kinda done with it all and isn't afraid to call people on their bullshit.

There is a ton of variety in characters, and reducing them to people who just say "fuck" a lot is disingenuous.

Also, I have predictions for where this show is going to go. Over time, the hotel is going to get more and more guests, and hope will grow that redemption will be possible. But somebody is going to find out that Charlie wasn't being totally honest about how her meeting with Adam went. They're going to find out that the angels have no interest in Charlie's social experiment, and that the yearly clense is a game to them that they don't want to give up. This will probably lead to the guests leaving the hotel. This is where I'm guessing season one will end.

Season 2, the guests of Hazbin will realize that even without the possibility of redemption, they are happier having worked on improving themselves. They'll end up coming together again just as the cleansing is about to happen. They'll defend themselves from an angel attack, killing the angel in the process. Something that is supposed to be impossible. The radio demon reveals a secret he's learned. Killing an angel is only possible if the demon is doing it to protect someone they love, something which was rare in Hell. Until recently. Armed with this knowledge, Hell rises up and drives back the angels. Maybe one important person from Heaven is taken hostage, and Heaven is forced to make a deal for the life of their hostage. The cleansings are ended, and Hell is allowed to thrive. Over time, it becomes a better place to live than the alternative, since Heaven is full of pricks with no desire or incentive for self-improvement.

There will likely be twists I don't see coming, though. It's odd that we haven't seen Charlie's parents. One of them being THE devil. The other, Lilith, has been apparently missing for several years. Don't know what's up with that, but I'd be shocked if neither played an important role in the story.

[Mr.Obvious]

Saw the full trailer for the netflix live action atla.

Second step is still good.

I remain cautiously optimistic.