Post your funny pictures here!!! part Deux

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So where's the Ruska Roma?

[Hydra009]

Greek culture is an Eastern culture, not a Western one. But it influenced Western culture so heavily and gotten owned by Western culture so good, this sounds stupid.

I suppose a case could be made, but Greek philosophy and culture is so central to Western culture that it'd be a very, very hard case to make.  Plus, Greek culture was foundational to Roman culture, which was pretty much synonymous with the West for a millennium.  To say that Rome was heavily influential to Western european nations would be an understatement.  We don't have those Corinthian columns at Washington DC just because they look pretty, there's a clear claim of influence/inspiration being made there.  Same in France and other places in Europe.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Washington Monument is an Egyptian obelisk.

[drunkenshoe]

I suppose a case could be made, but Greek philosophy and culture is so central to Western culture that it'd be a very, very hard case to make.  Plus, Greek culture was foundational to Roman culture, which was pretty much synonymous with the West for a millennium.  To say that Rome was heavily influential to Western european nations would be an understatement.  We don't have those Corinthian columns at Washington DC just because they look pretty, there's a clear claim of influence/inspiration being made there.  Same in France and other places in Europe.

Oh, no I didn't mean that by culture. On the contrary, I'm saying Greek is East. But, in philosophy, literature and academic traditions in humanitas, Western Culture is influenced by Ancient Greek not just through its influence on Roman Empire. Of course, Roman Empire is far more influential, that's why I'm saying it ended in 476. My usage of the word 'culture' was too old fashioned.

[PopeyesPappy]

The Washington Monument is an Egyptian obelisk.

Egyptian style obelisk...

It is much bigger. Most ancient Egyptian obelisks were carved from a single piece of stone making them arguably much more impressive feats of engineering given the technology of the time.

[the_antithesis]

And never mind that west and east are kind of pointless distinctions hen you live on a great big ball.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Egyptian style obelisk...

I said that. I didn't think anyone would say "it's not from Egypt." Sorry.

[PopeyesPappy]

I said that. I didn't think anyone would say "it's not from Egypt." Sorry.

I just threw that out there because there are a lot of true Egyptian obelisks outside of Eqypt. Paris, London, Istanbul, New York, and several in Rome. That and the Washington Monument is constructed differantly and 5x the size of the larger ancient ones.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

'fair 'nuff.'

There's so much bad Egyptology on the 'Net that amplification and clarification are always in order. I visited Abu Simbel short after the big move. Still stunned by that.

[Hydra009]

And never mind that west and east are kind of pointless distinctions hen you live on a great big ball.

Yeah, especially in antiquity - neither the Greeks nor Romans thought in those terms without a doubt.  West/East only really became a relevant distinction when western european countries became colonial powers.  Also, throughout the Cold War, a concept that has somewhat been revived in relevance in recent years.

[drunkenshoe]

It's pretty important though. I'm rusty, I cannot explain it plainly. The roots of modern life and secular culture is based on Ancient Greek tradition which has a strong profane quality. Again, this usage of the word 'profane' is not about the derogatory modern usage of the word, but to convey the meaning that the culture embraces the life itself people live; not some after life people work for like in Ancient Egypt. Hence the modern usage of the word lol. Because it's changed by Abrahamic traditions. Anyway, the most obvious difference of this division is the artistic expressions of the both cultures. Think about the Ancient Egyptian monuments and then think about an Afrodite carving, depicting a female figure just getting out of water, or washinh her hair. Latter is the depiction of a movement; actually even a moment. Former is frozen, closed. (I'm not talking about 'beauty'.) They are polar opposites. Ancient Egyptians did know human body didn't look like that or worked like that but they made an ideal image of it in terms of their culture. Everything's about a future life after death, nobody's actually seen or known. On the other hand, Greeks created something about 'this life' we only know and live. And then questioned it down to its smallest building blocks. They searched for knowledge for the sake of knowledge in their idealism because it's good, and beautiful, and true. Egyptians used their math and architectural knowledge to divide farm lands, to build enormous tombs for their kings to enter after life. Knowledge served for some obscure divine life out of reach. Their understanding of idealism was completely different. Ancient Greeks questioned how should humans live, how should a society work; what is good and bad; true and false. Dialectic... Rationality.

(I'm not putting Ancient Egyptian Culture down. I'm not seeing it that way either.)

Roman Empire is very very important, but if you take Anceint Greek culture out of it, it's only centralised military power with roads and archs. Speaking of arch, of course it is crucial, but its invention is eventual. It's engineering, it's math. Related to military progress, it's inevitable. But then you can't say the same thing about philosophy, literature and art. Romans took every kind of knowledge from trade to science from Ancient Greeks. By the way, of course, ancient Greeks didn't view natural 'philosophers' as philosophers as we do thinkers today; they were prophets. (But then, 'porphet' is a different concept then.) And ancient Greeks were very religious, their culture was a slave culture. Nevertheless, they created the base of the ideals of human life and society; the accumulation of knowledge that would one day end in what we call the social state.

So this is what I mean by Western culture is based on Ancient Greek culture, as its roots. It's Rome's relations with Magna Grecia; the far advanced, independent city states founded nearly 3000 years ago, the culture that created Hellenic civilisation, which has almost nothing in common with some small Greek country that exists today. (Because I feel like this affects people when trying to look back. It's already myopic and somewhat 2nd world country under European rule confuses people while thinking about ancient history. It's more like a pyschology I guess.) Anyway, forget about art, literature and philosopy, without that Ancient Greek culture, there is no Roman Law or administration, possible even that level of coordinated military organization. Military power does not make an exceptional civilisation. Think of Mongolians, Huns, Turks...

As a result, I agree with the understanding that Roman Empire ended in 476. It's a surprise it didn't end couple of centuries ago, lol and it took a long time in real terms. But the Eastern Roman Empire is something completely different than the Western one as I tried to explain from my point of view. However, if we could travel back to Constantinople, knock the door of a patrician's house and ask them who they are, they would highly likely say they are Romans. This is true, lol.   

Also, I think Turks generally think this is some sort of a discirimination, because conquest of Constantinople by Muslims is a big deal against Christianity...lol it's ridiculous needlessly to say.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And never mind that west and east are kind of pointless distinctions hen you live on a great big ball.

Philosophically, yes. But geographically it made a great impression on the old Europeans. Columbus was looking for a shorter route to the "Spice Islands", southeastern Asia and associated land masses. Spherical geometry was not his strong suit.

[Hydra009]

[aitm]

And never mind that west and east are kind of pointless distinctions hen you live on a great big ball.

Ask 100 people from which direction does the sun "rise" and about 60 will get it right. But ask them which direction the earth rotates and they just stand there perplexed. Some will spin around and some will wave their hands in the air.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

BUT! If you drop a ball it goes straight down! Take that science geeks!