Ask a Catholic

[CatholicCrusader]

We are aware that a good luck charm is associated with the occult and whatever power it contains comes from Hell.A Pagan might carry a talisman for good luck and protection but what if a Christian carries or wears an item that they believe the grace of God will work through. Is it satanic or is there Biblical basis for such a practice? 

In the Bible the grace of God worked miracles through the Ark of the Covenant (graven image), bronze serpent (graven image), golden Cherubim and Seraphim (graven images), The blessed hankerchiefs (third class relics), Pauls aprons (Acts 19:11-12), Elija's mantle (2 Kings 2:8), Moses' staff, the robe of Jesus, the use of holy water (numbers 5), holy oil, and a dead man was raised to life by touching the bones of Elisha (first class relic) 2 Kings 13:21.

In the Bible we see examples where the grace of God either healed people or worked miracles through holy images, blessed items, music, oil, water, rock, dirt, bone, clothing and other material things. It is also Biblical that those items can cast out demons; by the grace of God working through them of course.

That is one reason why the chief excorcist of Rome has noted that possessed people have an aversion and horror for holy images, sacramentals, and blessed items.So there is plenty of Biblical basis that the grace of God can work through crucifixes, medals, rosaries, holy water, blessed oil, blessed sacramentals, icons, and relics. It's not being superstitious, It's Biblical. 

Another bonus to being Catholic is we have a larger arsenal and take advantage of more of the weapons offered to us.The Ark of the Covenant was necessary to bring down the walls of Jericho, Peters shadow healed people (the shadow must have been necessary ), sometimes the touch of the apostles or their words were necessary, remember also that Jesus used dirt and spittle on occasion (dirt and spittle were necessary.).

..Naman had to plunge into the Jordan seven times to be healed of his leprosy, obediance was necessary, Elijah's cloak was necessary to part the waters 2 Kings 2:8, The staff of Moses was necessary at times, Elisha's bones were necessary to bring the dead man back to life 2 Kings 13:21Exodus 25:2222 There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from betweenthe two cherubim (graven images) that are on the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you about all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.

Interesting at this time where, how, and by what means God chose to communicate with his people.In the OT God spoke to the Israelites from the midst of the two Cherubim (graven images) atop the Ark of the Covenant.

Israelites prostrated before the Ark not to worship the graven images but to worship the God who chose to dwell there.Mary is a temple of the Holy Spirit and we dont worship her but the God who dwells within His temple and the Ark of the New Covenant. God works in mysterious ways through mysterious means.

Catech of the CC:

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honour, respect and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. 

Wearing charms is also reprehensible.Spiritism often implies divination or magic practices: the Church for her part warns the faithful against it."

So what all does the Pope wear besides the golden miter , the white dress, and Dorothy's red shoes?

Also why do Catholics have so many talismans, relics, and  lucky charms?  Why do you chop of Saints and collect pieces of their bones and distribute them everywhere and have their skulls on display?

[CatholicCrusader]

The whole of Christianity is oddly morbid, dwelling on sin, punishment, death, and the bones of ancients.  It's icon is of a man nailed to a cross with blood flowing from his wounds.  Holy Mother of clinical depression.  It's just awful.

All of us are called to carry th cross.   We are to keep our eyes on the  resurrection which does not take place unless the crucifixion takes place first.  Our suffering as the body of Christ is a participation in the redemption of salvation and glory in the resurrection of Christ.  God also has victim souls whose primary vocation is suffering and offering up this suffering  in expiation for the sins of the world.

becoming Like Christ in  his suffering and death , we also attain the glorious Resurrection.  Suffering is a way of becoming like Christ whose vocation and mission was to suffer and die for sin.   As paul said, to die is gain. This philosophy will help us enough to not be crushed, discouraged, or lose our peace in times of adversity.

Haven't you ever found yourself in suffering and adversity yet there was quite a joy about it?

[Icarus]

All of us are called to carry th cross.   We are to keep our eyes on the  resurrection which does not take place unless the crucifixion takes place first.  Our suffering as the body of Christ is a participation in the redemption of salvation and glory in the resurrection of Christ.  God also has victim souls whose primary vocation is suffering and offering up this suffering  in expiation for the sins of the world.

becoming Like Christ in  his suffering and death , we also attain the glorious Resurrection.  Suffering is a way of becoming like Christ whose vocation and mission was to suffer and die for sin.   As paul said, to die is gain. This philosophy will help us enough to not be crushed, discouraged, or lose our peace in times of adversity.

Haven't you ever found yourself in suffering and adversity yet there was quite a joy about it?

Masochists were around centuries before Jesus, he didn't make it hip and trendy.

[SGOS]

In the Bible we see examples where the grace of God either healed people or worked miracles through holy images, blessed items, music, oil, water, rock, dirt, bone,...

That is one reason why the chief excorcist of Rome has noted that possessed people have an aversion and horror for holy images, sacramentals, and blessed items...

Another bonus to being Catholic is we have a larger arsenal and take advantage of more of the weapons offered to us....

All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future.

All practices of magic or sorcery by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion...

Wearing charms is also reprehensible.Spiritism often implies divination or magic practices: the Church for her part warns the faithful against it."

You realize of course that you're full of shit, even for a Catholic.

[Nam]

The Catholic Church does not teach that it is a sin to be homosexual .

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/homosexuality

The first two lines say "homosexuality is a sin".

They must not be real Catholics at catholics.com, huh?

-Nam

[Nam]

What does an organization being long lasting and influential have to do with it's accuracy?

Sent from your mom

Well, if it's true then we all should be Hindus since it's the oldest continuous religion known.

-Nam

[stromboli]

Wow, what a load of horse manure. You are continually quoting from the bible which is demonstrably a work of fiction. Who cares that you "are required to carry the cross?" This is an atheist forum. What you are doing on here amounts to farting in a windstorm. You really, seriously need to get a life. What an exercise in pointlessness.

[Hakurei Reimu]

We are aware that a good luck charm is associated with the occult and whatever power it contains comes from Hell. A Pagan might carry a talisman for good luck and protection but what if a Christian carries or wears an item that they believe the grace of God will work through. Is it satanic or is there Biblical basis for such a practice?

The notion that any of the pagan talismen derive their power from hell is completely a Christian notion. By and large, talismen carried for good luck and protection have powers coming from good spirits and gods, not from any entity the pagan considers to be evil.

The power of talismen and holy symbols have the same source: psychology. The specific source of that power is immaterial.

So there is plenty of Biblical basis that the grace of God can work through crucifixes, medals, rosaries, holy water, blessed oil, blessed sacramentals, icons, and relics. It's not being superstitious, It's Biblical.

Who the fuck cares about the biblical basis for your superstitious practices and trinkets? You are being superstitious. You just have a biblical basis for that superstition.

Your cheif exorcist is seeing people who, while "possessed," are also Catholic themselves and are thus primed to believing that the holy images, sacraments, etc. are imbued with holy power, and themselves as being controlled by unholy creatures, and react accordingly. Atheists don't get possessed.

What you call "possession" is mental illness and disturbance, having natural causes and their roots in psychology, and only mistaken for magical control by some otherworldly being because of outdated superstition. Since the source of these disturbances is in psychology, and the power of Catholic talismen is purely psychological, it should be no surprise that Catholic talismen have an effect on psychological disorders.

In short, possession by an otherworldly entity has never been observed, let alone alleviated by the action of any Catholic talismen.

Another bonus to being Catholic is we have a larger arsenal and take advantage of more of the weapons offered to us.The Ark of the Covenant was necessary to bring down the walls of Jericho, Peters shadow healed people (the shadow must have been necessary ), sometimes the touch of the apostles or their words were necessary, remember also that Jesus used dirt and spittle on occasion (dirt and spittle were necessary.).

<snip>

Bullshit. The bible is not a source of history or scientific observation. It is a book of legends. None of the events you describe here have ever happened.

Wearing charms is also reprehensible.Spiritism often implies divination or magic practices: the Church for her part warns the faithful against it."

Translation: The Catholic Church wants no compeditors from pagan charms to overshadow catholic charms. It makes no difference whether your charms are pagan or catholic â€" they are powerless trinkets all the same.

[leo]

I can see catholic crusader in the purgatory very soon. The question is how soon ?

[Johan]

Honestly I don't understand why anyone here is still giving this asshat the time of day.

[Poison Tree]

remember also that Jesus used dirt and spittle on occasion (dirt and spittle were necessary.).

Wait, you are actually saying that Jesus could not have healed the blind guy without spit and dirt? I suppose that's just like how god couldn't create Adam, Eve or Jesus with out dirt, a rib or a rape, respectively.

[Nam]

Wait, you are actually saying that Jesus could not have healed the blind guy without spit and dirt? I suppose that's just like how god couldn't create Adam, Eve or Jesus with out dirt, a rib or a rape, respectively.

Don't question the voodoo or hoodoo of Jesus!

-Nam

[stromboli]

So answer my post about Mother Teresa- how do you justify a woman raising millions of dollaras and then not using it to help thousands of poor women, but instead letting them suffer in poverty? and then fast track her into sainthood to cover everything up? Or any of the others, from helping Nazis during WW2 or being against condoms and birth control?

I want a response. This is a debate forum. Respond.

[Solitary]

Oh that an easy one, she thought suffering was good because it makes you more Christ like. That's why their symbol is a crucifixion.  Solitary

[CatholicCrusader]

So answer my post about Mother Teresa- how do you justify a woman raising millions of dollaras and then not using it to help thousands of poor women, but instead letting them suffer in poverty? and then fast track her into sainthood to cover everything up? Or any of the others, from helping Nazis during WW2 or being against condoms and birth control?

I want a response. This is a debate forum. Respond.

Who here put more effort into easing world's suffering and loving the poorest of the poor and unwanted or put forth time and effort ito their consolation than Mother Teresa , that wartants you to be so hypercritical?  She was a sinner like us all, so Im  not saying but she wasn't on multiple occasions failing to be faithful to her duties, or that she was something more than a human being.

Had It not been for her , those lepers of society would have just died in a dumpster or on the streets.  at least they got to die with dignity, comforted by another human being with  love and compassion.