Does anyone feel sorry for Satan?

[dtq123]

Reading Genesis tells me how a God created the entire earth for ME. Then we have stories of how God chose Abraham and protected His descendants as a line for Him to come to earth... as a human for ME so that He could be a lamb to the slaughter for ME....so that even though I sin...my sins would not result in ME not being with Him...as long as I choose it. Free will for ME.

Holy Shit are you egotistic. Everything is about you isn't it?

[dtq123]

When God calls us a fool, He is not saying 'I made you stupid'.

We were not created with intellect, thus we are stupid. We could only learn good and evil through the fruit of knowledge, and nothing before. And I'm to believe after so many generations that the same knowledge bestowed upon Eve is given to me today.

Look, I'm so stupid, that even if the bible is the inerrant word of god, I'd say that us eating the fruit was the best thing to happen to us. Transience gives a more satisfying meaning to my life. I am not merely a pet of god where he punishes me if I do wrong. I am free I tell you. Stupid, Dying, but free! This Transience Satan has helped gain is wonderful, it means that everything that we do matters, since we only have so many chances in one life.

Do excuse this rant... I do hope you see the madness I am in. I do enjoy your time here, for it has caused much self reflection which should have been done anyway, but I have neglected to do so. For that I thank you.
I prepare myself for hell everyday with self-mutilation and burn myself to build psychological resistance to pain. I'm pretending hell exists for my own benefit, so I can live even more free by liberating myself from anguish of pain.

[Baruch]

Actually the Song of Songs is all about divine love (according to Rabbi Akiva who died a Jewish martyr in 135 CE) ... but he was also a heretic who endorsed Bar Kosiba as the Messiah ... which led to the Third Roman-Jewish war that took 2000 years to recover from.  Beware of rabbis bearing their own erudition.  Clearly Paul and John were from the same sect ... and they were also martyred as Jewish heretics too.

Heretic rabbis and failed messiahs (sorry, I consider any historical Jesus as a failed messiah) do not a religion make ... though they helped make two, rabbinic Judaism and gentile Christianity.  If G-d had come down out of the sky and slew the Romans ... that would be worth a bucket of popcorn ;-)

[Mike Cl]

Holy Shit are you egotistic. Everything is about you isn't it?

Now you are catching on.

[Baruch]

Egotism isn't completely wrong ... you and I are demigods ... but so are seven billion other people.  It is a banality of egotism, like the banality of evil at the trial of Eichmann.

[KingJ]

1. We were not created with intellect, thus we are stupid. 2. We could only learn good and evil through the fruit of knowledge, and nothing before. And I'm to believe after so many generations that the same knowledge bestowed upon Eve is given to me today.

3. Look, I'm so stupid, that even if the bible is the inerrant word of god, I'd say that us eating the fruit was the best thing to happen to us. Transience gives a more satisfying meaning to my life. I am not merely a pet of god where he punishes me if I do wrong. I am free I tell you. 4. Stupid, Dying, but free! This Transience Satan has helped gain is wonderful, it means that everything that we do matters, since we only have so many chances in one life.

Do excuse this rant... I do hope you see the madness I am in. I do enjoy your time here, for it has caused much self reflection which should have been done anyway, but I have neglected to do so. For that I thank you.
5. I prepare myself for hell everyday with self-mutilation and burn myself to build psychological resistance to pain. I'm pretending hell exists for my own benefit, so I can live even more free by liberating myself from anguish of pain.

1. We all have intellect.

2. No, our fall was inevitable from being a creation just beneath the angels. God did not put the devil and tree in the garden by mistake. He knew mankind would fall from day 1. He knew the devil would help speed that up. What we have to understand is that having sin is not the reason people go to hell. Adam and Eve did not go to hell for their disobedience. Loving what is evil > hating it is why people go to hell.

3. God doesn't punish His pets. God doesn't punish His enemies. God tests His children and gives His enemies what they want (bar kids to molest and animals to torture)....a home away from Him. Which God desribes as a '''hell'' because God is not there to spoil, look after and treat them like He is dying to do.

Look at how God says sinners are in death. Whilst sinners are enjoying themselves and having the time of their lives. God describes things from His vantage point.

4. We have always been and will always be, free. Free on earth. Free in heaven and free in hell. 

5. You don't need to do such. God does not invent torture machines. He is good. We give thanks because He is good Psalm 136:1.

I see three inescapable annoyonces in hell. 1. Torment from being who we are. The bible says ''the fire of their torment''. When we no longer see through a glass darkly we will fully grasp the evil intent we have given in to. This will cause torment for us. Torment of our own doing. Nobody is poking forks at us or burning us in a fire! We simply understand what we are if that makes sense. The fire in hell is as figurative as the word death is to God. God would just as easily say sinners are in fire right now! 2. Isolation from God. By choosing not to hate what is evil we are choosing to not be with God because God... hates what is evil Rom 12:9. Throughout the OT nobody was ever ''with'' God. Everyone was either in Abrahams bosom or Hades. Salvation took those in AB to heaven. Hence Christian salvation is not a free ticket to heaven for anyone who repeats magical lines. Rather it is a gift for those that hate what is evil, to be reconciled with God. 3. Neighbours in hell will always be 'evil' people. Thief will live next door, rapist will be governer and a murderer your shopkeeper. Ie wolves live with wolves.

Heaven and hell is simply a separation of lambs and wolves. Salvation / Christianity is simply a teaching that enables mankind who has sin, but hates it, to be reconciled with God. Hence this was Gods plan for mankind from the beginning Eph 1:4.

There are good things to look forward to in hell. It is reasonable to expect better then Geneva convention treatment of enemies by God / all those in heaven. There is no way that God will ever stop those that make it from visiting their family that never made it. Will a God who died for us not respect such a wish? That makes no sense.

Many preach a ferocious hell because they need members in their church. Or perhaps they don't understand that from God's vantage point ''ferocious / death / fire'' are states that apply to the evil right now. A murderer can't sleep at night. He is currently in a hell of his own doing.

I love the subject of hell. Been debating it at length lately on Christian sites.

[Baruch]

You are partly correct ... there are lots of things about my life (and by extension what appears as the life of others) that I dislike.  But what of it?  Are likes and dislikes the sin qua non?  That seems rather childish to me.  Adults have to do some things they dislike, because of the greater good ... they have to get beyond mere selfishness.  For atheists, G-d has no part in this unhappiness or happiness.  As a theist, I find G-d guilty, because I consider G-d to be intimately involved.  I reject much of the Book of Job for that reason.  My guilt I will bear, but who will bear G-d's guilt?

Good luck overcoming people's ignorance of life/death and heaven/hell.  Even atheists have to deal with ignorance of life/death, we all do.  Heaven/Hell are transmogrified myths about life/death ... that theists find helpful and atheists don't.  G-d doesn't die, because Jesus isn't G-d, not even mythically.  Early Church Fathers debated this, and decided that the Father didn't suffer on the cross, that to say so was heresy.  G-d's humanity is mortal, and that dies ... with every human, not just Jesus.

[KingJ]

1. But what of it?  Are likes and dislikes the sin qua non?  That seems rather childish to me.  Adults have to do some things they dislike, because of the greater good ... they have to get beyond mere selfishness. 

2. G-d doesn't die, because Jesus isn't G-d, not even mythically.  Early Church Fathers debated this, and decided that the Father didn't suffer on the cross, that to say so was heresy.  G-d's humanity is mortal, and that dies ... with every human, not just Jesus.

1. Venial sins are debatable and blurry. But mortal sins are clearly known to all of us with working brains.

2. God died as we do. None of us truly ''die'' either.

You believe in no afterlife?

[Baruch]

I don't believe in time.  So there is no "after" to believe in, and no "before".  But I do believe in "life" ... hard not to ;-)  Humans create a POV that includes "before" and "after" so that their "meaning" is intelligible.  Which is to say, life is a partly free impromptu play, with human and non-human actors, a stage as big as the Earth and beyond.  People seek to draw "meaning" from their own life and by comparison with that of others.  Our encounter adds to my "meaning" ... thanks ;-)  How about a little Zane Grey?

The narrative/story is still being added to (earlier chapters of that timeless story of each life) until the conclusion is reached.  We are both reading and writing this journal of our lives, our diary, part public and part secret.  But the book doesn't go away, the completed chapters are still there while the new chapter is being written, and from G-d's perspective (omniscience) all books are complete.  But no book is a never-ending-story ... at least in Westerns (joke) ... there is a beginning and an end.  Will you ride off into the sunset or be six feet under on Boot Hill?  Choose your fights carefully, and may your gun aim true ;-)) ... Gospel According To Wyatt Earp

[trdsf]

Nah, there are plenty of other fictional characters for whom I feel more sympathy.

[Baruch]

We define ourselves relative to fictional characters.  Including the fictional characters improvised by the other humans around us, and to make the idea circular ... ultimately the fictional character that we are ourselves.  When this fiction of self or society breaks down ... that is the psychotic break.  Germany did this in the 20th century on a collective basis.  Hitler was playing a role that he wrote for himself ... he was a fan of Wagner.  This role was created after he recovered from his personal psychotic break.  So if you have to be a legend in your own mind ... make it the best legend you can.  And don't forget to show sympathy for yourself.

This being so ... the humanities rule the sciences as far as human life goes ... science is about what is "out there" besides humans.  Posting posts where I post and what I post ... is my autobiography of sorts.  It is inevitably egotistical.