Hi. I need your help !

[manu44_44]

I have been defeated by my christian brother in an argument for the validity of Jesus as the son of God.
He asked me how could Jesus have controlled the following events ( which are meant to be prophecies ):1) He was sold and the 2) amount of gold was precisely the one in the old testament, 3) he was nailed to the cross and 4) the roman guards confiscated his shirt or something like that.... He might have assumed the role of Messiah because he was coincidentally born in Bethlehem and he was the descendant of David. This can be coincidence but what about the other 4 points ?  

   PLEASE help me defeat this argument :( .  I feel like a fool because I know christians are braindead but my bro actually  made a point there. Thanks !

P.S: Let's assume that the Bible is not an intentional hoax and that the old testament is older than the new testament.

[aitm]

so yer telling me that you have a hard time understanding how people read an old book then did what it said would happen and you called that a prophesy? Where I come from we call that "following the script".  sheesh.

[manu44_44]

Dude , those roman guards did not follow the script, they didn't know that by trading that damn shirt between themselves it would ( and i hate to say it ) "fulfill" the prophesy . I am not a christian in disguise but I need a good answer from someone who knows how to handle this particular question.

[Mathias]

1 and 2)The people who wrote the new testament (gospels) knew the amount, and then write according to what was written. Hard to even explain why a god would be tortured so long to spy the sins that still persists.

2 ,3 e 4)

Show this to him:

Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom while they are alive. [Luke 9:27]

Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs of the sun, moon, and stars, etc.). Happen during the generation of his hearers. [Luke 21:32]

Jesus implies that he will return to earth during the life of John [John 21:22]

Paul says that the whole world (in his view) was the gospel preached. Even the Native Americans, Asians, and the Pacific Islands? In any case, if Paul is right, then Jesus is a false prophet, since he said he would return before the gospel be preached to the whole world [Mt 10:23]. [Romans 10:18]

[manu44_44]

for Mathias : So....they lied about those 4 points ? they said it happened but it didn't actually happened ? Why would they die for this lie then ? Most early christians got martyred . And "god would be tortured so long to spy the sins that still persists"...what ... ? :-?

[aitm]

Maybe you need to read the babble yourself, thats what we did and why we think its bullshit. Read it yourself, if you think it makes sense then by all means go with it.

[manu44_44]

What the fuck ...seriously, I'm being serious and you're acting like an asshole. WHY ?
EDIT: What babble ? my post or the bible ?

[aitm]

Seriously? How is suggesting you read the babble yourself being an asshole? Your whining sounds like so many xians that come in here trying to start an arguement about something you have tried very hard not to learn.

[manu44_44]

I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN ! I was raised one and was forced to go to church every sunday. I think i don't know what to believe which is the smart thing to do ;). I NEED to know how to combat his argument though. And sorry for calling you an asshole . I though u mean the babble as my post , right ?

[stromboli]

Welcome. The New Testament was written from 80-150 years after the supposed ministry of Jesus. The reason it matches the Old Testament is because the writers made sure they made who ever Jesus was, assuming he was a real person, match up with what was supposedly prophesied. You can add to that the fact that all old scrolls (torah) were actually written long after that period in the middle ages- supposedly copies of copies of copies, so the validity is highly in question. The translation of the Old Testament was done in 70 AD from scrolls that supposedly were identical with scrolls written centuries earlier (known as the Septuagint), but there is no way to verify that.

Explain to your brother that the only valid "proof" has to be outside the Bible, not in it. Surprisingly, there is little or no objective proof that Jesus existed, or at least not the mythical Jesus as he is portrayed. there is no recognized historical evidence that a mystical, supernatural Jesus existed, or that he performed any of the miracles that were claimed.

I'm being nice, but the way your OP was written leads me to think you are a troll.

[BlackL1ght]

So basically, your brother found one consistency in the bible. Which was written to be as consistent as possible (which was a fail, btw). Go google bible inconsistencies and you will find loads of things that are wrong.

[Brian37]

So basically, your brother found one consistency in the bible. Which was written to be as consistent as possible (which was a fail, btw). Go google bible inconsistencies and you will find loads of things that are wrong.

Skeptics annotated bible is also a good resource

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have been defeated by my christian brother in an argument for the validity of Jesus as the son of God.
He asked me how could Jesus have controlled the following events ( which are meant to be prophecies ):1) He was sold and the 2) amount of gold was precisely the one in the old testament, 3) he was nailed to the cross and 4) the roman guards confiscated his shirt or something like that.... He might have assumed the role of Messiah because he was coincidentally born in Bethlehem and he was the descendant of David. This can be coincidence but what about the other 4 points ?  

   PLEASE help me defeat this argument :( .  I feel like a fool because I know christians are braindead but my bro actually  made a point there. Thanks !

P.S: Let's assume that the Bible is not an intentional hoax and that the old testament is older than the new testament.

Your brother is relying on the Bible to confirm what the Bible claims.

That's rather like freeing a man convicted of murder, and when asked why, citing the accused's protestations of innocence.  

In other words, there's a lack of objectivity to it; and it's a form of circular reasoning, as well, insofar as your brother is seeking to claim that the Bible is telling us the truth about slavation, and when asked "why?" your brother is relying on the very book he's trying to prove is correct.  So, the best answer for the immediate question, to my mind, is ask you brother for an objective source confirming the fulfillment of those prophecies.

While you're at it, you could ask him why, if the authors of the Bible were guided by the Holy Spirit -- why is the book so full of errors?  And how does he know that the fable about the prediction of Jesus is not in error?

Or, finally, you could ask him why a perfectly merciful god  would demand the blood of an innocent in order to obviate the sin which that god built into the human nature he is alleged to have created.

Myself, I wouldn't bother.  I'd just tell him to enjoy church and leave me out of it.

[Brian37]

for Mathias : So....they lied about those 4 points ? they said it happened but it didn't actually happened ? Why would they die for this lie then ? Most early christians got martyred . And "god would be tortured so long to spy the sins that still persists"...what ... ? :-?

Your opitions are these when it comes to ancient myths.

1. they are flat out lying and don't care

2. Or they believe the bullshit they peddle, like 19 hijackers truely believed that slamming planes into buildings would get them into heaven.

But, what will never be true is the earth being made in 6 days., talking donkeys and bushes, talking snakes, magical babies born of virgins, humans surviving rigor mortis.

The early writers may have been conned themselves or were cons themselves. What does not exist or ever will exist is an invisible sky friend, by any name.

[Jmpty]

The idea that christian were persecuted is a myth, just like the bible, and Jesus.

http://youtu.be/yXWsrWIO_6Q