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The Case for Theism

Started by DrewM, June 27, 2014, 11:53:22 PM

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St Truth

One solution is to ban him from all forums in AF but allow him to be in only one place. He has to address points raised against him. If he does not address arguments and goes on to talk about something else, he should be banned. But I say he should not be allowed to post elsewhere because as I see it, he is using AF as his mission field. He keeps posting in other places the same chewed-up and spat-out arguments that generations of atheists have debunked and he does it on different threads. So, it's very hard to put out his fire of lies and nonsense.  And it's very frustrating for me. After I have spent time to address his arguments and why he is wrong, he ignores what I have written and merely says I was wrong and I feel compelled to repeat myself but then he will reply again and again he ignores everything I have said. It's the kind of thing that theists are protected in Christian Forums but I expect AF to be more intelligent and fair than that.

Because Drew blatantly ignores what people have said before, and continues to repeat his flawed and discredited views in new threads, most atheists just ignore him. But new people who join AF do wonder why nobody addresses his weak points. That's what I thought when I first encountered Drew's arguments. I was wondering why nobody else countered his obvious mistakes. Now, I know. He regurgitates his nonsense notwithstanding what others have shown him to be wrong. He simply ignores what others say and repeats his preaching in the hope that some may be converted.  I know theists who have this kind of cowardly mission and if AF allows this dishonest, unintelligent coward to do the same thing on AF, we might as well join dumb CF.

For the integrity of AF, dishonest slimy people like Drew who have been banned before should be banned again.

Cavebear

Quote from: St Truth on October 01, 2017, 01:22:19 AM
If anything, Drew should be banned for ignoring arguments that he can't address. I have shown in another thread why he's totally wrong in his arguments but he just ignores what I say and continue to peddle his falsehood in favour of theism. I am now in two minds as to what Drew really is - a moronic dumbbell who cannot understand simple arguments or a dishonest liar who is hellbent on defending his god of the gaps. I have shown him why he is doing precisely that.

In one post, he argues that thunder is evidence for Thor, the thunder God. Now, he is arguing that the existence of the universe is evidence for God's existence. Conversely, he tries to show that atheists claim that natural forces brought the universe to existence  Atheists can't prove it's natural forces that caused the universe, neither can he prove that God created the universe. Hence the onus of proof should not be on the theist since atheists claim the universe is formed by natural forces.

I have answered him that this is rubbish. Atheists do not say that the universe is formed by natural forces. The Big Bang theory if it is to be accepted states that there is nothing beyond the Big Bang. It's a singularity that has nothing before it. You can't even speak of a time 'before' the Big Bang because there was nothing, not even time. So, the atheist really doesn't know if there is a cause for the Big Bang in the first place.

What Drew is doing is precisely what cavemen did when they said Thor was the cause of thunder. It is the god of the gaps argument again.

Because atheists are not saying that natural forces caused the Big Bang and theists are saying that God caused the Big Bang, you can't say that the onus of proof is on the atheist to show that natural forces didn't cause the Big Bang. Atheists do not say that in the first place. If you don't assert something, it's not for you to prove the existence of that which you have not asserted. But theists are asserting that God created the universe. In fact, for Drew and other theists like him, the existence of the universe is evidence for God. Because he asserts that God created the universe, he must prove the existence of God, following the simple rule that the person who asserts the existence of something has to show that it exists.

But Drew ignores all this and continues to peddle his theistic wares. I think he is a theistic troll. He has tried to lubricate his God with KY Gel in order to insert God into the gaps of human knowledge and i have called him out on that one. And yet he just goes to another post and repeats his imbecile garbage all over again.

I think if he does not want to address my points, he should be banned. Is AF a place for theists to ignore arguments and continue trumpeting their theistic garbage? He is a coward and a fool and a liar. It's obvious he is a banned person and I suggest that we get him and his lubricated God out. I don't see a need for a liar, a fool and a coward to remain in a forum that should not waste its time on theistic loonies. I don't want to see another CF in AF and it's imbeciles like Drew who when defeated in one post, ignores the post and repeats his flawed argument in another post or another thread. This is the kind of theistic cancer an enlightened intelligent crowd should have nothing to do with. Of course he is the dishonest person who was banned but sneaks it again with his lubricated God.

Ban the dishonest moron!

My impression was that you were rather theist.  I will read you further, to see.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Blackleaf

Quote from: St Truth on October 01, 2017, 01:24:08 AM
He has not changed one bit. He ignores cogent argument and he lies that I have lost when he refused to address my points. He is no different from a peddling preacher. He is dishonest, lies about not being the banned person when he obviously is and all he wants is to spread theistic nonsense in the hope of converting intelligent people to his dumb belief. Ban the fool, I say.

He might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, he hasn't broken any rules. He hasn't lied about being the same person as the OP either. He outright said that he was the same person, and that he chose a similar name because he had no intention of hiding it.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Cavebear

Quote from: Blackleaf on October 01, 2017, 01:59:32 AM
He might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, he hasn't broken any rules. He hasn't lied about being the same person as the OP either. He outright said that he was the same person, and that he chose a similar name because he had no intention of hiding it.

Then hasn't he stated he is going around a ban?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

St Truth

Quote from: Blackleaf on October 01, 2017, 01:59:32 AM
He might be annoying, but as far as I can tell, he hasn't broken any rules. He hasn't lied about being the same person as the OP either. He outright said that he was the same person, and that he chose a similar name because he had no intention of hiding it.

No, he lied. He said he was never banned.

Besides, does that mean that a person who is banned can always come back by altering the name slightly?

St Truth

Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 01:41:57 AM
My impression was that you were rather theist.  I will read you further, to see.

I'm a cultural Christian and an altar boy. I've made that very clear. I was born in a Christian family and I go to church with my parents. But that doesn't mean I'm a theist. Please don't insult me. A theist is either an idiot, a madman or an ignoramus. I am none of these nor a combination of them. I'm certainly not a theist. Theism is a disease of the mind. I'm quite sane, thank you very much.

Cavebear

Quote from: St Truth on October 01, 2017, 03:11:36 AM
No, he lied. He said he was never banned.

Besides, does that mean that a person who is banned can always come back by altering the name slightly?

I agree, once banned, forever banned.  Unless the person makes a contrite case for having changed.  I accept that people can change.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

St Truth

Quote from: Cavebear on October 01, 2017, 03:15:44 AM
I agree, once banned, forever banned.  Unless the person makes a contrite case for having changed.  I accept that people can change.

He is neither contrite nor has he changed. He even lies and denies that he has ever been banned. And he continues to do his preaching and evangelism while ignoring cogent arguments against his theistic nonsense. The problem with some atheists is the inherent cowardice that's in them. There is this subservience of some Americans to religious person - it's as if the harsh treatment of atheists in America has made them diffident to all other people, even on their own forum, the Atheist Forum. In Christian Forums, an atheist who has been banned and who has the temerity to go round the ban and come back with a new name and has the cheek to deny that he was ever banned would be given a good kick and banned amidst the jeering of laughing Christians.

It's obvious that Drew has a religious mission to provide a platform (albeit based on false, dishonest and easily debunked arguments) for people to believe in his religious garbage. He does not think twice about circumventing a ban. After all, what respect has he for atheists?

What effect has a ban when a lying theist can come back when he pleases? He's no different from the lying William Lane Craig. They are all the same, these theists. Drew has not defined his God. He has persistently refused to do so. I suspect he's a Christian. His arguments sound suspiciously like a rehash of the dumb and chewed-up and spat-out vomit of other past apologists I've read.  If he says he's not a Christian, simply ask him to blaspheme the dumb Trinity. I can think of many ways to do that that no believing Christian ever dares to do. Usually, a theist who will go all out to tell lies for the faith is one of the dumb Abrahamic faiths. These are the ones that need converts.

But whatever theistic nonsense he believes in is immaterial. The fact is he tells lies, he ignores arguments and all he wants to do is to preach his religious filth. And he has got round a ban imposed on him.  Ban the moron!!!

Ibn Khaldun

cavebear its rascally of you talking about me behind my back.

If there  is a issue  here its is you. You deliberately falsified that Wikipedia  account about surat al fatiha in my introduction post .I asked you time and again to retract that shit but you refused. Its on record ..

you falsify shit and you  talk trash all the  time and you don’t add anything to the discussion. Its all about this and that person and about your nobody self. Then you talk  ban this and ban that . that’s what you do. you bring that shit from home .  you got low self esteem issue go see a shrink.

Why don’t you leave these people alone. I’m talking about writing style.I can tell. They can’t , but I can.  Take your product of shame  backward  culture based clamping  of speech camel jockey  self  shit some place else

I looked at this guy drew shit . this is a  western mind set as opposed to your backward dragged in the mud with my people  religion mind set .. . he is right on the money . He is talking William James . His OP starts with warrants of belief . that’s how it is supposed to go.  You want to counter you got Hume and even if you do you won’t get far . his shit leads to pragmatism as the grading shit .shit is western. then he got scientific  inference  . its all fucking standard academic shit .  its not his fault you are clueless and lack the education and intellectual wherewithal to pick up on his shit .shit is complex and requires brains and education .you don’t have  brain or education.  . you have no idea how stupid you sound. Quack quack quack.   repeating machines . you memorized khara but you’re oblivious to a whole world of knowledge

talking Tony Blair and oh oh I knew from grandma. Who the hell  do you think you’re kidding? You didn’t have to go all the way  back to him. Stop lying to people about your age.

Stop this fucking shit . these westerners assume  there is native inclination to speak the truth and to accept what others say as though they mean it . that’s the basis of that sort of co operative tendencies among them  that propelled them while you rotted away. They don’t not know about you. I know.

get the fuck outta here and let these people work it out. Or if you want to stay go get an education first and then come back. .  .

Ya laki min lookaa galilat al adab  la taarafi lil hiat shian  wala lil woojood amra. Alla ya laanat allah sobi ala kusik al afin.

Carry on as pr would say . I  like that English shit . steady . steady . 

Cavebear

Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on October 01, 2017, 05:00:01 AM
Ya laki min lookaa galilat al adab  la taarafi lil hiat shian  wala lil woojood amra. Alla ya laanat allah sobi ala kusik al afin.

Google translation:  "Oh, that of a great Luke, the literature, I shall not seek the night of the life of Shen, nor the night, and the existence of an order. O God, a boy on the cliff of Aven."

Wow that sure puts ME in my place.  Well, if I can figure out what even THAT means...

Baruch, you know a lot about languages and the bible.   Is that a poor Google translation of something actually making biblical or quranic sense?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

St Truth

Quote from: Ibn Khaldun on October 01, 2017, 05:00:01 AM
cavebear its rascally of you talking about me behind my back.

If there  is a issue  here its is you. You deliberately falsified that Wikipedia  account about surat al fatiha in my introduction post .I asked you time and again to retract that shit but you refused. Its on record ..

you falsify shit and you  talk trash all the  time and you don’t add anything to the discussion. Its all about this and that person and about your nobody self. Then you talk  ban this and ban that . that’s what you do. you bring that shit from home .  you got low self esteem issue go see a shrink.

Why don’t you leave these people alone. I’m talking about writing style.I can tell. They can’t , but I can.  Take your product of shame  backward  culture based clamping  of speech camel jockey  self  shit some place else

I looked at this guy drew shit . this is a  western mind set as opposed to your backward dragged in the mud with my people  religion mind set .. . he is right on the money . He is talking William James . His OP starts with warrants of belief . that’s how it is supposed to go.  You want to counter you got Hume and even if you do you won’t get far . his shit leads to pragmatism as the grading shit .shit is western. then he got scientific  inference  . its all fucking standard academic shit .  its not his fault you are clueless and lack the education and intellectual wherewithal to pick up on his shit .shit is complex and requires brains and education .you don’t have  brain or education.  . you have no idea how stupid you sound. Quack quack quack.   repeating machines . you memorized khara but you’re oblivious to a whole world of knowledge

talking Tony Blair and oh oh I knew from grandma. Who the hell  do you think you’re kidding? You didn’t have to go all the way  back to him. Stop lying to people about your age.

Stop this fucking shit . these westerners assume  there is native inclination to speak the truth and to accept what others say as though they mean it . that’s the basis of that sort of co operative tendencies among them  that propelled them while you rotted away. They don’t not know about you. I know.

get the fuck outta here and let these people work it out. Or if you want to stay go get an education first and then come back. .  .

Ya laki min lookaa galilat al adab  la taarafi lil hiat shian  wala lil woojood amra. Alla ya laanat allah sobi ala kusik al afin.

Carry on as pr would say . I  like that English shit . steady . steady .

Did that damned insane blood-thirsty pork-eating madman Muhammad teach you manners? Does bloody Allah aka the pink polka-dotted pig ever tell you to behave yourself when you are in an atheist forum? This is not a bloody mosque where you can scream foul language like they always do from your minaret.

Hydra009

Quote from: Blackleaf on September 30, 2017, 11:51:08 PM
I don't think either qualify as sock accounts. And it's been years. I think a second chance is reasonable.
A sock account is a second account created by the same user, which Drew admitted to.  So yes, it does qualify as a sock account.  And afaik, there's no timeframe where a permanent ban expires, so the second argument is irrelevant.

Up until now, I've been under the impression that I've been arguing with someone who was semi-genuine albeit horribly misguided.  This revelation makes it clear that I'm dealing with a chronic liar ("I don't know if I was banned" when of course he did, "Neither of my accounts broke any rules" which is patently untrue) who is still every bit the broken-record proselytizer.

Now, let's talk about second chances.  Previously, people who have made a sock account to circumvent a ban are swiftly rebanned.  I don't think it is wise to change this policy.  If we make an exception for Drew, we'd have to make an exception for others and the end result would inevitably be Too Dumb to Live godspammers sticking around who would otherwise be gone.  I dunno about you, but that's not a future I desire.

Cavebear

Quote from: Hydra009 on October 01, 2017, 11:17:46 AM
A sock account is a second account created by the same user, which Drew admitted to.  So yes, it does qualify as a sock account.  And afaik, there's no timeframe where a permanent ban expires, so the second argument is irrelevant.

Up until now, I've been under the impression that I've been arguing with someone who was semi-genuine albeit horribly misguided.  This revelation makes it clear that I'm dealing with a chronic liar ("I don't know if I was banned" when of course he did, "Neither of my accounts broke any rules" which is patently untrue) who is still every bit the broken-record proselytizer.

Now, let's talk about second chances.  Previously, people who have made a sock account to circumvent a ban are swiftly rebanned.  I don't think it is wise to change this policy.  If we make an exception for Drew, we'd have to make an exception for others and the end result would inevitably be Too Dumb to Live godspammers sticking around who would otherwise be gone.  I dunno about you, but that's not a future I desire.

I'm with Hydra here.  Banned is banned and I expect a ban to be enforced.  Unless the banished proves some reason to be allowed to return.  There CAN be misunderstandings and changes of character.  Not that I see one here.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

St Truth

Quote from: Hydra009 on October 01, 2017, 11:17:46 AM
A sock account is a second account created by the same user, which Drew admitted to.  So yes, it does qualify as a sock account.  And afaik, there's no timeframe where a permanent ban expires, so the second argument is irrelevant.

Up until now, I've been under the impression that I've been arguing with someone who was semi-genuine albeit horribly misguided.  This revelation makes it clear that I'm dealing with a chronic liar ("I don't know if I was banned" when of course he did, "Neither of my accounts broke any rules" which is patently untrue) who is still every bit the broken-record proselytizer.

Now, let's talk about second chances.  Previously, people who have made a sock account to circumvent a ban are swiftly rebanned.  I don't think it is wise to change this policy.  If we make an exception for Drew, we'd have to make an exception for others and the end result would inevitably be Too Dumb to Live godspammers sticking around who would otherwise be gone.  I dunno about you, but that's not a future I desire.

So what are we waiting for? Can someone ban him NOW? He has been preaching and refusing to argue. It took me a long time to explain to him that he was wrong to call thunder 'evidence' for Thor and wrong to say the universe is evidence for God. But he ignored what I said and went on preaching. He said others could read for themselves. It's so obvious that he is using AF as a platform to preach God without addressing the points other people have raised.

He is a blatant liar even though he is clearly an imbecile. He must have thought atheists are all dumb because he used the same 'Drew' in his name and nobody realised he was the same person. And then he became bold and he resuscitated his own thread. When I looked at the thread I didn't see the difference in names and I thought it was a thread he started.  He must have been chuckling to himself.

Now that I have seen his brand of stupidity and flawed arguments, I think I should be able to smell this rat a mile away if he comes back  and calls himself DrewAgain or something like that. He's making a mockery of the rules and probably he's laughing at the moderators to his own Christian forums. Please ban him and ban his lubricated God which he has repeatedly tried to insert into the gaps of knowledge.

Can someone please report him to the moderators?

Hydra009

Also, this revelation taints any future discussion we might have because now I know for a fact that he's not here to genuinely discuss the issues, he's here to preach at us just like his last incarnation.