Introduction

[stromboli]

I'm getting a vibe that we have another Casparov.

[Aroura33]

Stromboli,

I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists, I know of few atheists who claim its a fact God doesn't exist. Do you know God doesn't exist or do you believe God doesn't exist? I can make a case from evidence in favor of my belief...can you?

Oh come on, this right here just screams troll. Like, full on. Doesn't know ANYONE who claims it is a fact God exists! Please, that is the stupidest, least factual, most obviously said just to get an emotional reaction out of us thing I have ever seen a theist post in these forums, and that is saying something. His next post is a damn close second, too. Seems to think he can out logic us, lol.

Present your evidence or gtfo. This is coming from one of the forums gentler members with most theists, so please, we are all waiting to hear your "case" with bated breath...lol

[stromboli]

Probably another Deepak Chopra clone. Standby for guantum theory double slit experiment in 3....2....1....

[Johan]

FLAG ON THE PLAY: Inappropriate use double standards to support an argument. Ten yards. First down.

You can't say this:

I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists, I know of few atheists who claim its a fact God doesn't exist.

And then say this:

It wouldn't matter how many theists I'm acquainted with, even if they claim to 'know' God exists there stating an opinion.

So what you're saying is that when athiests say its a fact that god doesn't exist, they're wrong, but when theists say its a fact that god does exist, its right because they're only stating an opinion.

I think you need to open your eyes a bit there scheckie. There all kinds of statements and proclamations out there in the world from theists stating in no uncertain terms that god does in fact exist. Almost none of them contain the qualifier that the aforementioned statement of fact was in fact not a fact at all but rather only an opinion. OTOH I have quite often seen and/or heard athiests choose their words quite carefully so as to clarify that the only thing they are sure of is that they have seen insufficient evidence to prove the existence of god.

[DrewM]

First post in the Religion general discussion forum. You can continue your whining, hand-wringing and moaning there.

[Icarus]

Not only do I subscribe to theism, I am skeptical of atheism, the belief we owe our existence and the existence of the universe to some non-god cause.

Why does the universe need a cause? It doesn't care about causes, it can't, it's a universe.

[stromboli]

He started with the first cause argument, so don't be looking for any smashing revelations from this guy. 

[DunkleSeele]

Hi Drew, and welcome.

Hello Algae,

It wouldn't matter how many theists I'm acquainted with, even if they claim to 'know' God exists there stating an opinion. An opinion doesn't become a fact no matter how sincerely someone believes it.

I agree there are many so called 'weak atheists' who like yourself redefine atheism as a lack of belief, evidently because their disbelief in God is so weak, so tepid so meaningless they can't bring themselves to opine they don't believe God exists. If you as an atheist don't disbelieve in the existence of God why should I disbelieve in God? The letter A in the word atheist means not or with out just like the letter A in asexual means not or without sex. If you drop the a in atheism then you're a weak theist...not a weak atheist.

Oh look, another condescending asshole theist telling us what atheism is; I retract my welcome.

First post in the Religion general discussion forum. You can continue your whining, hand-wringing and moaning there.

Look dipshit, this is an ATHEIST forum. If you think you can get away with that attitude, think again. Don't think you can come here redefining words and insulting us right from the start and get away with it. Drop your fucking attitude or you'll become a chew toy, at least until we'll get bored and then ban you. Oh, and go fuck yourself with a cactus; wrapped in barbwire; dipped in hot chili sauce.

[Mr.Obvious]

I agree there are many so called 'weak atheists' who like yourself redefine atheism as a lack of belief, evidently because their disbelief in God is so weak, so tepid so meaningless they can't bring themselves to opine they don't believe God exists. If you as an atheist don't disbelieve in the existence of God why should I disbelieve in God? The letter A in the word atheist means not or with out just like the letter A in asexual means not or without sex. If you drop the a in atheism then you're a weak theist...not a weak atheist.

Hello Drew, welcome to our merry little band of heathens.

Sorry to break it to you, but all that 'atheism' means is a lack of belief in god. In that sence it's not 'redefining' something if you adhere to the original definition of the word.

And we are not asking you to 'disbelieve', or at least most of us aren't. We are asking you to be skeptical and not use fallacies and we implore others to look at the world from an unbiased position; without the unwarrented knowledge that there is or isn't a God. And if you can find some actual verifiable evidence from that position that there either is or isn't a God; we'd be more than happy to learn about it. If you can't, then we'd be justified in holding to the basis-position.

It's not about our 'disbelief' being to weak. It's about not claiming things without the necessary evidence. It's about having the humility to understand that our senses and personal experiences aren't the perfect grounds for defining the universe. It's about accepting that our knowledge and intellect are, though splended and wonderful, sadly limited. It's about understanding that making claims out of thin air have can have a negative and devastating influence on the process of the human race. And it's about knowing when to focus on the questions we can solve.

But anyway, welcome to AF.

[the_antithesis]

I am skeptical of atheism,

You're skeptical of skepticism?

Fuck off.

[PopeyesPappy]

Most of the atheists here fall in the agnostic atheist category about the possibility of god until you start getting more specific about the definition of god. As the definition starts moving from deism to theism we begin to move towards the gnostic category. Jewish zombies being no more believable than hammer swinging thunder gods or solar orbiting teacups and all.

[SGOS]

Stromboli,

I don't know of anyone who claims its a 'fact' God exists,

What?  Have you been living under a rock?

[the_antithesis]

First post in the Religion general discussion forum. You can continue your whining, hand-wringing and moaning there.

Get bent.

[Solitary]

Another fine example of you can't prove I'm wrong so I am right fallacy. Theist just don't get it, we don't believe in anything without reliable evidence. Atheists have knowledge to back up their beliefs, while theists have ignorance---so God did it, I know because I have faith in Scripture being the word of God. Solitary

[DrewM]

Hello Mr Obvious,

Sorry to break it to you, but all that 'atheism' means is a lack of belief in god. In that sence it's not 'redefining' something if you adhere to the original definition of the word.

We'll have to disagree on that point, ask the average person what atheist means and they will say a person who doesn't believe God exists. They don't claim its a fact God doesn't exist, in their opinion God doesn't exist.

Dictionary.com


a·the·ism
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Personally I think the lack of belief position weakens atheism to a non position. As a theist I don't deny God exists...but according to weak atheism, atheists don't deny God exists either. How can we debate existence of God, when neither one of us denies God exists?

And we are not asking you to 'disbelieve', or at least most of us aren't. We are asking you to be skeptical and not use fallacies and we implore others to look at the world from an unbiased position; without the unwarrented knowledge that there is or isn't a God. And if you can find some actual verifiable evidence from that position that there either is or isn't a God; we'd be more than happy to learn about it. If you can't, then we'd be justified in holding to the basis-position.

I'm making a case in favor of my belief in another thread.

It's not about our 'disbelief' being to weak. It's about not claiming things without the necessary evidence. It's about having the humility to understand that our senses and personal experiences aren't the perfect grounds for defining the universe. It's about accepting that our knowledge and intellect are, though splended and wonderful, sadly limited. It's about understanding that making claims out of thin air have can have a negative and devastating influence on the process of the human race. And it's about knowing when to focus on the questions we can solve.

I agree the belief or disbelief in the existence of God is an opinion and I have acknowledged I could be wrong and it could turn out our existence and the universe was caused by mindless forces that didn't intend our existence.