An apology and a clarification

[Contemporary Protestant]

A lot of people were bothered by request no to swear, sorry if that bothered you, I just ask that we can be civil

Second I made a mistake regarding the Old Testament

I said I don't live by it, that is true but it doesn't mean it isn't important

The Old Testament is very important in understanding the New Testament, and understanding Jesus' life. The Old Law was used to help people deal with sin (sacrifices and such), Jesus' death changed everything. It made everyone equal and it took away the need for sacrifices because through him I am made pure. Its a very difficult concept and Im doing a poor job of explaining it. Here is a resource, it seems decent. Sorry I can't come up with a good response

https://bible.org/seriespage/above-and-beyond-matthew-517â€"20

I can't really elaborate on the subject because it is very difficult to grasp, hopefully in the future my understanding will be better

[Hijiri Byakuren]

A lot of people were bothered by request no to swear, sorry if that bothered you, I just ask that we can be civil

This idea that using a swear word suddenly makes the conversation "uncivil" gets on my fucking nerves.

[PickelledEggs]

Don't worry CP you learn something new every day.

Today you learn that shit just means poop originating from the germanic word for poop or feces. Fuck also originates from the germanic language, probably from poke or prod, and cunt originates  ALSO from the germanic language coming from the word for vagina.

What I want to know is, what did people have against the germanic tribes?

[Aletheia]

What I want to know is, what did people have against the germanic tribes?

They sounded very excited and angry when talking which made the non-germanic tribes feel offended. Too many harsh consonants, growls, and horribly abused vowels. Many had the hope of obliterating the language and its derivatives from the face of the planet with one censored word at a time.

[PickelledEggs]

They sounded very excited and angry when talking which made the non-germanic tribes feel offended. Too many harsh consonants, growls, and horribly abused vowels. Many had the hope of obliterating the language and its derivatives from the face of the planet with one censored word at a time.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks! :D

[Johan]

Listen, you seem like a good egg from what I've read so far. But there are a few things you should understand if you're going to last here. First, you're not going to convert anyone here. Not that I think you're trying to do that, but no one here is going to be convinced by your faith nor is anyone here going to spend any amount of time reading links scripture interpretations or the like. We can converse with you about your opinions but that's as far as its going to go for most of us.

Second, people swear. I understand that you might find the language offensive, but you need to understand that we don't. Individual words are not what offends most of us. They're just words. Yep, some of us are abrasive. That's going to happen anytime you wander into a large group of atheists and start proclaiming that jesus is the one true faith yada yada yada. I hope the abrasiveness doesn't run you off but then again, I'm not going to lose any sleep if it does. To be blunt, you weren't the first and you'll be far from the last.

[Mr.Obvious]

Meh, house rules: Profanity can be fucking usefull.

But can I ask. You don't live by the OT, but do you believe it to be true or not? And to what extent?

[Contemporary Protestant]

I believe it to be true, and when something doesn't make sense, i look at myself and say "what am I doing wrong" or "how can I look at this differently", A lot of OT rules were for health reasons and to protect the Ancient Israelites .

To put it simply

"The Bible is the undisputed word of God however, the reader and the translator are often wrong"

btw I try to learn as much ancient Greek, hebrew, et cetera to further my understanding

[Mr.Obvious]

I believe it to be true, and when something doesn't make sense, i look at myself and say "what am I doing wrong" or "how can I look at this differently", A lot of OT rules were for health reasons and to protect the Ancient Israelites .

To put it simply

"The Bible is the undisputed word of God however, the reader and the translator are often wrong"

btw I try to learn as much ancient Greek, hebrew, et cetera to further my understanding

Okay, well, regarding the fact that people followed the laws way back then, that's something I can believe too. It of course does not imply they were 'intrinsicly' valuable or divinely inspired. (Also there is a lot to be said countering health- and protection-reasons for laws and revealed 'truths' in the OT.)
And while I disagree with 'undisputed word of God', I'm glad you say "reader and translator are often wrong". Because that would mean we still need to discuss and debate on what is moral or what is a good way to live life and organize society and what we think should be legal and illegal. (I might suggest, leave the book out of it at once, seeing as you can't trust reader and translator to get to the (purely) hypothetical and unprovable "undisputed truth" anyway, so it will only slow us down.)

But what I wanted to know, and my bad for not specifying it, is do you believe the stories happened? Like the Flood, the garden of Eden and the snake, Sodom and Gomorrah, Job, David & Goliath, the Exodus, the plagues, ... And if you do, to what extent. And do you believe the God portrayed in the OT is a fair representation of the unchangeable God you believe in?

[aitm]

The Bible is the undisputed word of God however, the reader and the translator are often wrong

Because god, the almighty, all knowing, creator of the universe, tit mice, giraffes, dna, atoms, suns and brains just couldn't figure out how to put the words together in the OT, but by golly every word in the NEW testament was absolutely perfect.....

[aileron]

...Jesus' death changed everything.

No, it didn't.  First of all, there's no concept - zero, nada, none, zilch, zip, in the OT that the messiah would be a god-man.  The god-man is Greco-Roman in origin and makes exactly zero sense in the context of fulfilling the OT messianic prophesies.  What is more, Jesus failed to meet the messianic predictions.  Jesus did not build the third temple; he did not gather all Jews back to the land of Israel; he did not usher in an era of world peace; nor did he spread universal knowledge of the god of Israel.

[charde]

"The Bible is the undisputed word of God however, the reader and the translator are often wrong"

btw I try to learn as much ancient Greek, hebrew, et cetera to further my understanding

So how does that work exactly? How does one go about believing something is entirely true, if the reader and translator are often wrong? Especially when you're talking about professional translators who do nothing but study how to translate properly, and you and others are just lay people trying to explore your own beliefs?

Does it mean you hold a particular view anyway but are just willing to change if you decide a different translation is more accurate?

Does it mean if you have a religious experience with God that might not be documented in Scripture that you will go with the Bible says and reject what you have experienced yourself?

And what do you do in situations where it seems the Bible is contradictory to itself? (Most attempts to reconcile scripture seem to be man-made endeavors, to make the Bible consistent so that people can feel comfortable believing in it and know how to behave and what to believe; but isn't that just adding to scripture?)

All serious questions, I'm interested in what you think.

[Contemporary Protestant]

Yes in that statement, I am saying that I am open to any translation because I could be wrong , I am open to anyones view on religion, I believe Jesus' death changed everything because it allowed the holy spirit to be with every single person. If you  reject the concept of the divine trinity then, the crucification means nothing to you. Jesus is a man, I never used the phrase "God-Man"

The Torah (first five books of OT) were written by Moses

I believe that the OT could be literal but then again it might not be, I am open to both schools of thought

Isaiah 54, I'm pretty sure, is the Prophecy of Immanuel, for those of you who are more familiar with this kind of thing

[Poison Tree]

What is more, Jesus failed to meet the messianic predictions.  Jesus did not build the third temple; he did not gather all Jews back to the land of Israel; he did not usher in an era of world peace; nor did he spread universal knowledge of the god of Israel.

But he was born of a virgin (not a messianic requirement) and was from Nazareth (not a messianic requirement) and rode two horses into Jerusalem (not a messianic requirement) . . . so clearly he was the messiah

Isaiah 54, I'm pretty sure, is the Prophecy of Immanuel, for those of you who are more familiar with this kind of thing

How so?

[Contemporary Protestant]

Actually he rode a donkey (messianic requirement) and was born in Bethlehem (messianic requirement)

I don't have the text in front of me, but Im sure Isaiah 54 talks about Jesus