Hi, I'm a cultural Christian

[SGOS]

I can't help wonder if much of this discussion is being generated by some rather idiosyncratic definitions of things like what is meant by holy or atheist or whatever.  Idiosyncratic definitions lead to confusion, and I get the feeling there is a lot of confusion here.  I'm feeling it in myself and am reluctant to join in.  Others seem to be attempting to sort out the confusion, and I don't think I could do any better or offer anything more.

[scroyle]

That's nothing. I'm totally unfazed. I'm used to atheists and I'm aware that for some of you, when you drop your religious culture, you drop all culture and courtesy but that's ok. Using memes to communicate may appear so unintellectual in the polished circles I move in but hey, I can take atheistic excesses. :)  Let's have more of your memes. I know that's how you communicate and I'm eager to see more.

[scroyle]

I can't help wonder if much of this discussion is being generated by some rather idiosyncratic definitions of things like what is meant by holy or atheist or whatever.  Idiosyncratic definitions lead to confusion, and I get the feeling there is a lot of confusion here.  I'm feeling it in myself and am reluctant to join in.  Others seem to be attempting to sort out the confusion, and I don't think I could do any better or offer anything more.

I don't see what's so idiosyncratic about my definition of a Christian. I'm saying that the right party to decide what a Christian is must surely be the Church. You guys are saying it's for the atheist to decide. I dispute that of course. It's ludicrous that atheists get to decide who a Christian is. Nothing can be more nonsensical than that. It's the church that should decide and that's that. Surely you can see that?

[Sargon The Grape]

[scroyle]

Hijiri, I must confess I was a little angry with you at first but you are a strange character and you do have an unusual sense of humour.

[Sargon The Grape]

Hijiri, I must confess I was a little angry with you at first but you are a strange character and you do have an unusual sense of humour.

Thanks, I do try.

[wolf39us]

Oh brother, 6 pages of stuff to read! :-)

[SGOS]

Using memes to communicate may appear so unintellectual in the polished circles I move in but hey, I can take atheistic excesses. :)

I really don't know how "polished" the circles you move in actually are, but I get the impression they are somewhat limited.

[the_antithesis]

I don't see what's so idiosyncratic about my definition of a Christian. I'm saying that the right party to decide what a Christian is must surely be the Church. You guys are saying it's for the atheist to decide. I dispute that of course. It's ludicrous that atheists get to decide who a Christian is. Nothing can be more nonsensical than that. It's the church that should decide and that's that. Surely you can see that?

I really don't care what a christian is. Arguing the definition of things is a waste of time. Appeals to authority, especially authority of questionable merit, are no indication of truth.

[stromboli]

I don't see what's so idiosyncratic about my definition of a Christian. I'm saying that the right party to decide what a Christian is must surely be the Church. You guys are saying it's for the atheist to decide. I dispute that of course. It's ludicrous that atheists get to decide who a Christian is. Nothing can be more nonsensical than that. It's the church that should decide and that's that. Surely you can see that?

Did I not mention that many of us here have been Christians? I was a Christian for 16 years. I ran a youth ministry for 2 years. I get to decide who Christians are because I was one. You don't get it. We are in an adversarial position with religion because religions have put us there. there are laws on the books of many states against atheists even holding office, and atheists are attacked and protested against in the media and on the internet. Watch Fox News for a few days. The only people attacking you are people that have been attacked. 99.9% of all congressmen identify as Christians. 75-80% of citizens in the U.S. identify as Christians. There are no laws anywhere that directly attack your religion, except where your religion has adversely affected the rights of others.

Women in the Bible Belt can't get birth control because of religion. In all of Texas there are only 3 clinics that still provide abortions- and yes there are medical reasons where abortion is necessary for life saving. Your religion tries to force Creationism and other idiotic beliefs on school children, whether they be Christian or not. A Buddhist in a Louisiana elementary school won a lawsuit recently for being prejudiced against; forced involvement with Christian religion in a public school.

The last atheist meet in Washington was picketed against by several religious groups. we don't go picketing churches on Sunday for their beliefs. What we do is reactionary. Your view is myopic, to say the least. I guarantee that we have a more objective view than you do because we are an aggregate of both former believers and non believers. You need to get outside your myopic little box before you start laying judgment on us.

[Poison Tree]

I have always been a Christian

There was a time in my life when I became an atheist

I know many atheists have thought of me as an atheist but my definition of an atheist is slightly different. An atheist is one who will not follow a religion.

Your just shitting us, right?

[scroyle]

stromboli, if you look at the posts so far, you will see that I have not laid judgment on atheists as you wrongly claimed. I've only defended myself as a Christian when people call me an atheist. I did say something arrogant in reply to Hijiri's obscenely vituperative meme but as I explained subsequently, I was a little miffed with him initially. You seem very riled about the fact that in the US, the feelings of atheists are needlessly hurt but I do have feelings too and they can be hurt as much as an atheist's can. You need to get out of your accusatory little box and tell me what it is I have accused atheists of. I don't see why I can't defend my standing with the church and I don't see why you should take that to be an attack on atheists.

I can understand a little the persecution complex that you might have. But please understand that I'm not an American and I don't have the same fundamentalist pugnacious zeal that the Religious Right in the US have. I find them obnoxious as much as I find Fox News incredibly offensive. I have seen how William Lane Craig argues for Christianity and I despise him from the bottom of my heart. American Christians can be repulsive in every sense of the word. My fear is many of you assume I'm just like your regular Bible Belt Southern Baptist Bible-thumping fire-and-brimstone preacher. I'm NOT.

When I said atheists could not come up with the same sort of charity that the church has, I did not mean it as an accusation against atheists. I made it very clear that atheists are good people. I've said that repeatedly. All I've said is atheists do not have the huge infra-structure that the church has. And you've got to admit it. Atheists are individualistic and you can't herd them the way the Christian flock can be herded. I've read how some atheists tried to start a Sunday worship equivalent but it failed. There were many atheists who hated the idea. This is not an indication that atheists are bad. By no means.

Even I have burned with anger when I saw online jokes about atheists having their official day on 1st April. It's very infuriating but this is not the work of all Christians. It's unfortunate that the most scientifically advanced nation on earth is also the most superstitious with 50% of the people (or so I've read) believing in creationism. I suppose if I were an atheist in the US, I'd be livid too. But you must never think all Christians are the same. It's unfortunate that in the US, there are so many fundies but let me assure you, it's not like this in many other parts of the world. Certainly not at all like this in Britain and many parts of Europe.

[stromboli]

Your just shitting us, right?

Yes, I believe that would be the case.

[stromboli]

O lordy mama. I need some coffee.

[scroyle]

Your just shitting us, right?

When you pick pieces and post them, you are doing precisely what Bible-thumping preachers love to do. Let me explain. Yes, I've been a Christian all my life.  But like I've said, there was a period in my life when I decided to stop going to church and at that time I did embrace atheism. But I returned to the faith. How am I kidding you?