When Things Are Taken Too Far

[VladK]

A while ago this was posted on Freethought Blogs:



So my question is, if you agree with this (I certainly do not), would you give your 5 year old son a pink Barbie doll?

[Drummer Guy]

If he really wanted one, I would support that.

Or I could encourage him to deny what he is feeling and have him grow up confused and alone.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I can't read a damned thing that image says other than yes/no.

[Moralnihilist]

I think that the toy makers design toys with either boys or girls in mind. I also think that for the most part there is some wiggle room in quite a few toys such as building or science based toys. HOWEVER I also think that there are also toys where in there isn't much wiggle room in terms of the gender design base of toys such as disney princess toy lines.

I assume this posting is due to the little kid bullied because of his my little pony lunch box and his subsequent banning of bringing it to school. Im torn on this whole "issue". On one hand the school should be a safe area for kids to figure out what they are whilst learning. On the other hand, the parent of said kid should know that kids are vicious/feral little fuckers who "attack" those that dare to be different. While there is no problem with this kid liking my little pony, bringing in a my little pony lunch box to school as a boy does send up a large flag that screams different.

I am in no way taking the side of the bullies or the school board that passed the decision to ban this kid from rocking his my little pony lunchbox. There were several failures that occurred that allowed this kid to be bullied. The first was the parent giving no thought that kids are feral little assholes who might see this as a green light to pound her kid into a pulp. The second was the school for not protecting this kid from said feral little shits. Third was the school board seemingly siding with the bullies and banning this kid from bringing it to school.

If this kid wants to watch my little pony at home or with friends thats fine. If he wants to play with barbies, although not something I agree with, its fine as well. HOWEVER bringing it to school, regardless of the way people want things to be, does indeed mark this kid for abuse from other feral little fucks. With most class sizes going over 30 students per teacher there is no way that a teacher could be expected to not only teach the required information but also to make sure that 30+ feral little shits are playing nice with each other constantly.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I have no problems with little boys playing with girl toys or vice-versa. The school board has utterly no business determining this either unless the ONLY motivation was to protect the kid which I seriously doubt that they did.
When I was a kid boys playing with GI Joe was seen as sissified because they were dolls. The whole tough guy, macho bullshit thing was in full force, (post wwII & Vietnam war, etc.), but the school never tried to interfere with kids choices of toys as long as they didn't interfere with classes.

[VladK]

If he really wanted one, I would support that.

Or I could encourage him to deny what he is feeling and have him grow up confused and alone.

That's kinda the point, by default, you work on the assumption that he doesn't want one (and you probably don't want to encourage a taste for it either, let's say he hasn't explicitly said what kind of toy he wants). Of course you can allow exceptions if a boy really really wants it, but most will not.

I don't think that's what PZ is trying to say with this image though. I just think he's against default standards (probably trying to push an ultra-PC agenda of some kind). The article itself is here:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/12/05/the-simplest-holiday-shopping-guide-ever/

Notice the title: "The simplest holiday shopping guide ever"

More like a simpleton fantasy-based guide.

[Shol'va]

VladK: where do you stand? Do you agree with it? Do you take issue with giving a boy a Barbie doll? What about giving a girl a fire truck?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Wal-mart sells pink rifles.

[aitm]

I don't have a 5 year old son, but  I had a 5 year old daughter once and I let her have a BB gun. damn good shot too. I would not not give a toy to anyone who asked for it...er......a child I should point out...APA can get a little weird over toys.

[GSOgymrat]

When children are infants I would choose gender appropriate or neutral attire because infants have no idea about clothing and fashion is really about making adults more comfortable. Most kids start letting you know what they like and dislike at an early age, so really I think this topic is more about the parent's expectations and anxieties than the child's. If my son asked for a Barbie for his birthday or my daughter asked for a GI Joe I would get them what they wanted. When in doubt I tend to buy kids things I liked as a kid, such as Lego, spaceships, videogames, etcetera.

[Plu]

My daughter can play with whatever she likes and we'll buy her whatever she asks for. Some days that means playing with dolls and some days that means playing with cars. Who gives a shit? Let people do what they enjoy and leave the judging to the assholes. And that goes regardless of the age of the person.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Well imagine you have a son, say 9 or so and he occasionally plays with girl toys, maybe a sisters barbies, but isn't like I GOTTA HAVE IT! It's his 10th birthday party and all his friends are there, all typical kids, it would seem cruel to spring a new ken and barbie doll house on him and expect him to not hate your guts for life. Likewise if thr kid was a delicate little girl buying her football cleats would be rather cruel. I wouldn't do something like that. Occasionally though roles do switch and that's why parents really do need to be involved in their kids lives instead of treating them like unwanted moving furniture like to many parents do.
I don't really want more kids,  but I miss raising mine sometimes. It was fun when they were kids.

[Plu]

I'm not sure how "giving your kid something they don't really care for", let alone "giving your kid something that will embarass him in front of his friends" is part of this discussion. That's just being mean. :(

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Some people who have never raised kids love to tell others all about how to raise them. Sometimes I wonder if they were even ever kids themselves at any point in life.

[Plu]

And some people who have never been a member of certain culture love to tell people about raising kids in that culture, it's just a fact of life. That's why you should take everything you read with a grain of salt and make sure to apply (and train!) your own judgement. :)