The bible(ew) teaches predestination and free will

[the2ndcominofjebus]

How do I simply explain to christians that this is the most ridiculous concept imaginable? Firstly, they never listen when you say only a sick fuck of a god would plan this. Sure, I don't word it that way, but I might as well. Just help me get a better way of explaining this. You're all smarter than me, so I simply need a simple answer. How would you go about it?

Like, get raped by your step father, little girl.. good plan.. now get saved or rot in hell!!!

ahhhh.. they're morons. This doesn't even work. I must be approaching this wrong? Some say, like.. great christian thinkers(oxy-fuckin-moron) have been wrestling with this for thousands of years! lol. I can't break through. I need your guidance.. how do I pwn souls?

[Rex Rgis Verum]

At this point in my life, I've stopped caring. I've learned that if you could reason with religious people, they wouldn't be religious. It's better to let them live in their delusions as long as they aren't harming anyone else because the odds of you breaking through to them are very slim.

[the2ndcominofjebus]

i answered my own question, eh? just impossible.. are they slow or something? Have they never looked into the validity of their faith? If you guys are wondering why I seem to be coming to some conclusion.. it's because I was sick with christ-insanity and schizoaffective disorder for so long.. i'm finally coming to. Thank JEBUS.. some of the shit I use to sympathize with.. yikes

[Solitary]

i answered my own question, eh? just impossible.. are they slow or something? Have they never looked into the validity of their faith? If you guys are wondering why I seem to be coming to some conclusion.. it's because I was sick with christ-insanity and schizoaffective disorder for so long.. i'm finally coming to. Thank JEBUS.. some of the shit I use to sympathize with.. yikes

I doubt you have stopped caring, but just gave up trying to understand the madness of religion and people's delusions of grandeur and magical Neanderthal thinking. I love seeing someone that cares and thinks logically and lives in reality and knows imaginary things are all in the mind and not in reality.  =D>  :-D  Solitary

[darsenfeld]

er....since the Bible was doctored by the late Roman Empire priests, why should we trust it?

So for 16/1700 years, people have been following "God lite".  wonder how the Almighty thinks about that, if he actually gives.

[the2ndcominofjebus]

If there's a plan, god's not exactly too caring about the people.. lol but yea, the romans wrote the entire book. I don't know what you mean about god lite.

[AT7iLA]

Can't really break a Christians belief, especially if you are forcing to break it. Just like Christians cant break the belief of a big bang. They can give examples like "the big bang isn't scientific because no one has ever observed it and it can't be tested nor repeated" one can also say "creation too was never observed yet Christians believe in that" but then they respond with "well that's why it's called 'belief' because it was never observed but evidence is there."

So, you can't really force your world view on anybody. Just let them think and live life how ever they want to.

[the2ndcominofjebus]

Where is this evidence of god? Surely it can't be found on this earth. The thought of hope is such a broken concept when you open your eyes. I fail to see any sign of a caring, controlling god. It just isn't there. And before christians say it, I'm not pocessed by lucifer. I'm rational in my thinking because i'm understanding of EVOLUTION.

[Passion of Christ]

Well the past is fixed and unchangeable but you still had freewill to do what you did in the past.

Where is this evidence of god? Surely it can't be found on this earth. The thought of hope is such a broken concept when you open your eyes. I fail to see any sign of a caring, controlling god. It just isn't there. And before christians say it, I'm not pocessed by lucifer. I'm rational in my thinking because i'm understanding of EVOLUTION.

The great majority of theists accept evolution, they don't worship it as atheists apparently do though.

[Plu]

Well the past is fixed and unchangeable but you still had freewill to do what you did in the past.

I'm trying to understand how this relates to the concept at all, but I'm coming up blank.

[Passion of Christ]

I'm trying to understand how this relates to the concept at all, but I'm coming up blank.

Just apply the same concept to the future as it will be a time period that exists much the same as the present and the past exist. God isn't going to be subject to our perception of time being the eternally existent creator of time.

[Plu]

There is a minor problem though; free will implies that we can make choices now, but predestination implies that one can know what a state in the future looks like now.

This means that ultimately, our choices are irrelevant.

[Passion of Christ]

There is a minor problem though; free will implies that we can make choices now, but predestination implies that one can know what a state in the future looks like now.

The time you were considering as now is now in the past and the time that was the future is now instead. So it's just a matter of consciousness perspective as to what this time you call now happens to be.

This means that ultimately, our choices are irrelevant.

At the moment of your death you will be able to view everything in your life you decided to do, you will have had the freewill do everything you did but you can't change what you did. There will be a point in the future when you will die so everything is backtracked from that point to your physical creation. You will apparently be able to view everything you ever did or experienced during the process soon after death if NDEs are anything to go by. These are called Life Reviews and involve something people describe as a "Being of Light".

[Plu]

The time you were considering as now is now in the past and the time that was the future is now instead. So it's just a matter of consciousness perspective as to what this time you call now happens to be.

You're good at this whole "spewing nonsense" thing.

[Sal1981]

...if you could reason with religious people, they wouldn't be religious.

All up in this.

are they slow or something?

I don't think so, but they are programmed to think a  certain way that results in a huge mental "blind spot" in their world view. I should know, I was believer for a large part of my life.