Join the Dark Side, why I hate Obi Wan now.

[Brian37]

The dictator Darth despite all his murderous actions and oppression is forgiven in the end. That meme goes way beyond merely forgiving someone for something non violent, such as lying to a friend, or hurting their feelings.

I dunno. If you don't forgive people for the bad things they do, there's no reason for them to stop doing bad things. The only way to ever get people to actually try and improve is if you're willing to let them make amends and forgive them for the past.

The character Obi Wan teaches us the same thing "faith" does in reality, to go with what science knows and psychology knows is notoriously flawed, our perceptions.

There is a minor difference... in the Star Wars universe faith actually works. I wouldn't object to people having faith in our world if they could use it to force choke people and dodge bullets blindfolded.

We didn't forgive Germany after WW1, that part was a mistake which allowed Hitler to rise. But after WW2 we did forgive German(as a whole), but still held those in power who caused it to account. If Hitler had not committed suicide, we wouldn't have let him walk free.

Again, forgive in what context? If North Korea suddenly got toppled you'd be able to forgive the society, but not Un himself.

[Plu]

If North Korea suddenly got toppled you'd be able to forgive the society, but not Un himself.

If North Korea suddenly got toppled, then Un would not be in a state of repenting, and thus deserve no forgiveness.

Now if Un decided to suddenly apply all his wealth and power to making life better for the people in his country, I'd have very little problems forgiving him for past misdoings. Or at least, I'd rather people just let him work it (even without forgiving him) over deciding to go in and shoot our new philanthrope in the head for past deeds now that his guard was down.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

See, now this is why the bible was way ahead of its time.  If it had just waited for Hooeywood and all those crazy special effects it would've been a cult classic by now.  :-D

[Hydra009]

Darth is the Hitler of that movie. The "storm trooper" name came from the Nazis, and the over sized helmets were a reflection of German helmets along with the officer green motifs under Darth. The empire in the movie was literally modeled off of Germany's WW2 Nazis.

True, but we never get the full story on that.  The only perspective we have on the Empire is through the eyes of the Rebels.  Sure, they have a massive military, rule by force ("Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."), kill civilians, and use enhanced interrogation techniques, but enough about American foreign policy, I'm trying to talk about the Galactic Empire here :P

It's possible that they're actually far less murderous and ruthless than one one might think.  The Ewoks had a large and prosperous village that apparently coexisted quite peaceably with the local Imperials.  And (Alderaan notwithstanding) the various systems that the Empire controls did just fine unless they rebel against the Empire.  Cloud City would even stay independent provided they stop sheltering rebels.  Sounds like a good deal to me.

All their actions in the movies were drastic measures taken because of a continually escalating insurrection and not their default state.

[Jason78]

But, the most insidious meme in "Return of the Jedi", smacks of similarities of Saul, being a former monster whom becomes good and forgiven and becomes Paul. Darth Vadar from the first movie, is a dictator, genocidal and even kills those who fail him, not once, but several times. In the final minutes in the last battle between Luke and Darth Vadar, Darth realizes his mistake and turns on his own evil master and kills him to save Luke. Luke then tries to save him. Sounds nice.

"A good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good. Each should have its own reward."
- Stannis Baratheon

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Can we all just agree that Obi-wan Kenobi and Darth Vader are awesome characters and move on?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk. Titty sprinkles.

[leo]

The original trilogy are awesome movies . The prequels suck.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The Emperor Palpatine would be the ~Hitler. Darth is the ~Himmler.

[Jason78]

Emperor Palpatine was the good guy.

[Sal1981]

I fucking hated all those stupid scene transitions in Star Wars.

And here, because sometimes you just want to watch the world burn:
[youtube:2a5t8vl1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usXca7W_jvM[/youtube:2a5t8vl1]

[Hijiri Byakuren]

The original trilogy are awesome movies . The prequels suck.

What prequels? There are only 3 Star Wars movies.

[Brian37]

Can we all just agree that Obi-wan Kenobi and Darth Vader are awesome characters and move on?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk. Titty sprinkles.

In what context? Oedipus of the ancient Greek play, starts out sympathetic. Targeted as a baby of his rivals. Parents abandon him in order to save him. He is adopted by another family. But grows up to do the same violent things those who went after him as a baby. The fact that he realizes his transgressions at the end doesn't change that he kills his father and has sex with his mother.

The movie makes for great fiction, yes. But it still has horrible memes in it.

[Brian37]

The original trilogy are awesome movies . The prequels suck.

What prequels? There are only 3 Star Wars movies.

The only ones that I liked were the first 3. The rest made me feel like I was playing a fucking X Box.

[Brian37]

See, now this is why the bible was way ahead of its time.  If it had just waited for Hooeywood and all those crazy special effects it would've been a cult classic by now.  :-D

The bible is full of very mundane drama and very horrible plot development. If you want some Jerry Springer action, the ancient Greeks were masters.

[Aroura33]

I think showing characters to be not completely black and white/good and evil to be a good thing. It shows that people can change.
I have noticed that exploring the idea of "villains" doing the wrong things for the right reasons have become more popular (Wicked, Breaking Bad, etc). I think it is an important idea to explore, and actually quite anti-biblical. Usually characters in the bible are pretty one dimensional. Darth Vader is a clear villain to begin with, but slowly you realize he is just a pawn of the emperor, and even the emperor believes his regime will bring peace.

Anyway, redemption is a pretty common theme in stories. I hate that every story that contains any redemptive features automatically gets compared to Christianity. It existed in stories far predating the bible, and assuming we don't kill ourselves off, it will continue to exist long after Christianity is but another ancient dead religion.