New Devlopments in the Ukraine

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Yahoo is  suddenly the official news source that the world listens to? Being a protectorate and being annexed are quite different situations,  but I hate to break the bad news kids. If Russia wants Crimea bad enough they can have it.  I have little interest in another long, drawn out war or proxy war for that matter.

[GrinningYMIR]

Its a copied article from a different site

[Moriarty]

Yahoo is  suddenly the official news source that the world listens to? Being a protectorate and being annexed are quite different situations,  but I hate to break the bad news kids. If Russia wants Crimea bad enough they can have it.  I have little interest in another long, drawn out war or proxy war for that matter.

They will not let me back in the military at my age APA, otherwise I would! The Ukraine is worth fighting for, far more than Afghanistan or Iraq. So screw it, we started two wars of aggression that we probably didn't have to. Does that mean we shouldn't fight in one we probably should? The Crimean peninsula, as you said is not worth fighting for and maybe neither is Ukraine but stopping the Russians flat out where they are is.

I have been reading a lot of articles and posts where people are proclaiming the rebirth of the Soviet Union. That is bullshit, we could at least deal with them, this isn't communism it's a tyrannical government hell bent on expansion that their own people don't even support. Don't stop him/them now you have another Hitler on your hands. Period.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I won't support any war that doesn't directly threaten our sovereignty or that of our close allies we're under treaty obligation to defend. Ukraine doesn't fall into that and you better think fucking hard and long about war with Russia.  They have nuclear weapons too...lots of them.

[josephpalazzo]

The US won't be doing much, and like in 2008 when Russia invaded Georgia, it will do a lot of screaming,much ado about nothing. Putin knows this, and so is everybody else.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I don't feel any worse off since the Georgian dick fight. :-k

[GrinningYMIR]

Well the Ukrainians called up all of their reserves, if Russia chose to invade the rest of the Ukraine however, I don't think they would last long

http://news.yahoo.com/putin-ready-invad ... .html?vp=1

[zarus tathra]

Note: this was all accomplished without firing a single shot.

[hillbillyatheist]

scary thing is if I'm not mistaken we DO have a treaty to defend Ukraine.

it was part of the nuclear disarming treaty we signed with them. they got rid of all their nukes, and we agreed to protect them.

I could be wrong, so fill me in.


thing is though I agree with APA that war with Russia is BAD NEWS. could even be the end of mankind. its not worth it. let 'em have Ukraine.

[zarus tathra]

Where is this treaty? The one on Wikipedia doesn't mention anything about having to protect the Ukraine, we just have to "respect their borders" and bring up any dispute before the UN.

[hillbillyatheist]

thats a relief to hear.

[zarus tathra]

Very few countries are stupid enough to sign a binding "defense" treaty after WWI and WWII, especially when such a treaty might mean fighting a nuclear-armed country.

[aileron]

Very few countries are stupid enough to sign a binding "defense" treaty after WWI and WWII, especially when such a treaty might mean fighting a nuclear-armed country.

???  They are more common now than they have ever been, and precisely because of the possibility of fighting a nuclear-armed country.

This is a list of nations that have mutual defense treaties and only includes the ones led by the US.

NATO:  Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.

ANZUS Treaty:  Australia, New Zealand, United States

Philippine Treaty:  Philippines, United States

Southeast Asia Treaty:  Australia, France, New Zealand, Philippines, United States

Japanese Treaty:  Japan, United States

Republic of Korea Treaty:  Republic of Korea, United States

Rio Treaty:  Argentina, Bahamas, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Trinidad & Tobago, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela

[zarus tathra]

I admit that was a dumb thing to say.

[Shiranu]

As I said in the chat box last week I believe... the Ukrainian people fought and died so that they could be friends with us over Russia. So long as Ukraine is there wide for the taking, Russia will take it (if they feel they can survive any sanctions put on them). If it is both economically and militaristically a poor idea, I cant see Russia taking it.

If we leave them to be taken over by Russia, that will not sit well with the Ukrainian people who risked their lives to be our partners and gives Russia the green light to get involved in any foreign conflict they want.

If they want to hold Crimea, then I think that needs to be arranged through diplomatic means, insuring that both the Russians and Ukrainians have access to ports along the sea. But to say that Putin deserves Ukraine because we are too afraid to stand up to them sounds very eerily like the men who said, "Let Hitler have Poland, we don't want to make him mad.".

Giving the power hungry more power rarely sates their apatite.