Europe warns of Turkey Internet censorship

[Shol'va]

First and foremost, don't confuse my hectic daily life for an unwillingness to participate in discussion.
Second, don't forget that there is a significant time zone difference between you and I. You may be comfortably at home in front of your computer while I may still be at work or getting ready to go to work.

You are confusing my unwillingness to be led down rabbit holes with a lack of capacity of critical thought.

And I never said Americans perfected censorship. I said US policy as in domestic state policy.

That makes it WORSE for your argument. If US domestic policy perfected censorship in some way and it is actively applying it, then that Slate article should simply not exist. You have inadvertedly refuted your own point. By definition censorship is the act of an outside entity, in this case the US government, suppressing what it deems as dissenting views. The Slate article was a dissenting viewpoint to the Times article which was in support of the administration.

You wanna talk about censorship? You missed a PERFECT opportunity to talk about Snowden and the bullshit rape charges brought against Julian Assange in an attempt to stifle Wikileaks. You see, when it comes to government bullshit like that, I am RIGHT THERE WITH YOU. But you need to reign in your eagerness to throw everyone into that mix. Those are anecdotal examples, and to prove my point, consider the fact that it was MAJOR US NEWS SOURCES that talked about those incidents and even EXPOSED HIGHLY embarrasing secret documents about the US Government. This utterly destroys your accusations of domestic censorship.

Is there presently a bias against Muslims in the United States? Yes! Come back to us when Turkey suffers a major attack by Christian fundamentalists and then talk to me about perspective. IF you want to fault Americans for something, then fault them for taking a long time to get over 9/11 and realizing that not all Muslims are to be looked at suspiciously. I agree with you on that. There continue to be news of Christian fundamentalists carrying out crimes almost identical to what you described above, and I can give specific examples as well.

Is there presently political bias prevalent in the major news outlets? Absolutely! This happens in all countries.

What you are doing is making sweeping generalizations to the point that they are absolutely meaningless.
When challenged on those assertions, you condemn me of being a typical American and by the way, I'm not sure how many times I have to repeat the fact that I am an immigrant.

Another assertion I want to challenge you on is the fact that Americans not only fear their government, but fear it more than other 2nd world countries. SOME Americans may fear their government, but the prevalent sentiment is not that of fear of government, but fear of having their rights taken away. Americans are suspicious of government, not afraid of it. Americans hate big government, or at least republicans do. Now I know you are about to say "but what about NSA and TSA and the security theater?" Not one single person in the airport has ever said "thank god for all these searches, I feel so safe now". You should also know that right now in several news outlets the NSA is being called out for their bullshit, including within the government.

Bring some meaningful, well thought out and objective points to the table and stop making unsupported sweeping generalisations and I will stop "targeting" your posts.


This thread is about YOUR country. So let me ask you this. What are YOUR people doing about it? How do YOUR people feel about it? How do YOUR people plan to address it?

[Shol'va]

Let me also say this, just so I cut future assumptions at the root and put a stop to cat and mouse games.
I do not believe the US is an inherent force of good in the world. At best, it is a mixed bag. Some things have been positive, many that I can think of have been outright destructive. But I give Americans, meaning the citizens, more credit than you do.
Many times the candidates will say one thing at election time and do something else. At that point Americans have little choice. Broken promises and lies. Welcome to the real world. Everyone does it.

[Shol'va]

Having visited Turkey, namely Kusadasi, Izmir, and other areas not too long ago, I think you are hardly in a position to qualify my country a banana republic. What I saw while I was there was women leaving work in the morning by the busload, while the men stayed home and played checkers with me. And I angered them a lot because they kept losing :)
You take these conversations very, very personal and are very quick to insult, which leads me to believe there is something else at play, not just political objections, something deeply personal. Does this have something to do with your sister, which, as I understand it, is living in the States? I would be curious to know if she shares your views.
May I also remind you that it was you that accused me of somehow specifically seeing your posts as something to target. I'm perfectly comfortable with being challenged ;)

[AllPurposeAtheist]

They rely on willful ignorance and a heavy dose of flat out laziness on the part of the public, but this is also true of religiospeek feeding bullshit to a public all to eager to eat it up if it fits their preconditioned world view of the magic man in the sky who will always make "good" triumph over "evil" and in the case above the US, all "good christians" triumph over "evil Iran" so any and every lie is justified.

What flat out laziness, APA? "Oh ya know Americans are just stupid lazy and fat", is that it? What are the people going to do if they live under totalitarian state where they have been lied in the last half the century and evolve a culture according to that prevents them to see the left from right? Develop some psychic abilities and get to the truth?

There is a very few honest thing out there now when we just passed the first decade AND this has been going for decades and decades. This is not just something about evil iran and muslim the enemy.

It's a perception shoe that's been carefully cultured as you mention. Are people lazy? I know I am, but probably no more than most people and nobody holds a patent on lazy. I think most people are aware they're manipulated,  but seldom know to what extent the manipulation extends nor do a whole lot care as long as they perceive their own comfort and convenience. This isn't anything uniquely American by any stretch.
Some people buy into the whole evil v good bullshit and it's cozy to do so. After all,  how many people do you know who want to sit around thinking 'the bad guys' aren't so bad and their own elected officials are evil fucks hell bent on global domination at any cost?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Umm..ok. you're seemingly pissed and probably are. Cuss me if you like. I'm ok with it, but what is it you want? I'd like to see everything from others perspective,  but hey, I'm just another idiot lazy american unable to see anything beyond my cozy little world.  Feel better now?

[Shol'va]

You keep repeating this point, that I am brainwashed this and narrow viewed that, and yet there is a complete failure to address specific points. You lack a certain level of self-awareness in the amount and gravity of insults you dish out. But that's OK, I can take it, but I am compelled to point it out regardless. When I pressed for specifics, the rebuttals were ad hominems.

connecting the information we get

And how do you know you are making the right connections? As I've pointed out in this very thread, there were at least a couple points you were off base.

Oh and please save your vacation observations of a country you don't know the first thing of

That is hilarious. You do realize that was a retort to you calling my native country a banana republic?

I have no doubt your sister can take care of herself, but I imagine there must be some cognitive dissonance going on there and that's why I brought it up. If she disagrees with your views, is she likewise everything you accused me of? If she agrees with your views, it's gotta be one hell of a time living amongst such terrible people. Either way, if she is the exception to the norm, the distinct possibility is that others are also the exception to the norm so it begs the question if you hasten to generalize.
Did she also exchange one babana republic for another, like you said I did? You certainly seem to suggest that she emigrated from good to bad, in your opinion.

You've shown in this thread that you are, in fact, very disconnected with the everyday life in the US and make connections based on fractured information you collect. Set aside ad hominems and bring some meaningful rebuttals.

[Shol'va]

However, we are not isolated. American people are. And yes Americans are demonised badly. But not everyone is so stupid as to think they are just evil people. Many people are aware that the same bullshit is going on there in much bigger level. Because we too suffer from the same thing.

See? You are capable of well thought, objective, non-emotional points of view! If all your posts were as level headed and non-inflamatory like that, you would not be the target that you insist on making yourself. This is a forum. Expect to be challenged on assertions.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I am not a bit pissed off at you. why would I be? I agreed with you, but said that I think it is not that simple.  :shock: And also carried my positive observation in very recent years,lol.

Ehh, I figured you gotta get pissef off at me on a regular schedule or the whole time continuum goes out of whack, but I don't pay much attention to the calendar.  :)

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I am not a bit pissed off at you. why would I be? I agreed with you, but said that I think it is not that simple.  :shock: And also carried my positive observation in very recent years,lol.

Ehh, I figured you gotta get pissef off at me on a regular schedule or the whole time continuum goes out of whack, but I don't pay much attention to the calendar.  :)

APA, are you aware that I actually never got pissed off at you yet. And if I get pissed off at you I would scream my head off you in PM. And then may be get drunk and sexually abuse you.  :shock:

Wow..this post makes you look fat. I'll await your drunken sexual abuse.  :-D

[Shol'va]

So stop addressing my posts to please.

Sorry, but that's not how it works. You should be familiar with the concept of a freely accessible forum. The only thing you have control over is what you post and cannot reasonably place demands on others. If I see what I perceive to be an unsupported, inaccurate, sweeping assertion, you can bet it will be challenged if I choose to do so.
It is wholly unreasonable to expect one to wade through thousands of past posts to establish a trend. The only choice that is on the table is to address CURRENT statements at their own face value. If my responses are not an accurate reflection of your position, then you should ask yourself what did you say to contribute to that.

So let's go back to the point of this thread. This is about impending, upcoming attempts at censorship in Turkey, not US policy.
What's the word in your country so far. I'd love to hear it.