Is Freefall Proof of Controlled Demolition?

[Sargon The Grape]

I'm pretty sure we've passed the Old Seer threshold now. If we can keep this going for another week, AMF is going to surpass Eve in the troll department.

[josephpalazzo]

But a body can not pick up kinetic energy falling at the rate of gravity and still be able to really break stuff along the way.  It can not do both.  You can not have your cake and eat it too.  You can either accelerate at the rate of gravity OR you can break stuff along the way, not both.

Just imagine you walking on a fragile pane of glass. A rock is thrown, and the glass breaks - you, the rock and all the pieces of glass will now fall freely under gravity.


Once the floor brook up at the WTC, all the pieces that once made up the wall, the floor, the furniture, and every knick knacks that were present on that floor fell under free fall. All of those thousands of loose pieces are coming down, picking up kinetic energy (KE = 1/2mv[sup:245urd3q]2[/sup:245urd3q]) as the velocity v is increasing every nanoseconds. Notice it's velocity squared, that means as  the velocity doubles, the KE quadruples.  Also, the KE is proportional to the mass m. All of that concrete weighed thousands of tons. So do the calculation. Once that hits the ground, it has so much energy, it can pulverize just about anything. So how did that come about? Once the steel beams were melt by the high temperature, then the floor had to collapse, and what you get is everything is under free fall.

That they were explosives placed prior to the attack is just bogus, as that kind of action would require extensive planning, involving hundreds of people who, for the rest of their entire lives, would have to keep quiet about it, never revealing anything to their loved ones, spouses, family, friends. Just think about it, your wild theory is just not believable.

[Hakurei Reimu]

@Hakurei Reimu

He can't face the fact that what hit the pentagon was a 747, given the fact that they found the parts of that exact plane that was missing at the crash site. No, no! [-X It had to be a cruise missile.

Show me where I said anything about a cruise missile.

You insinuated it with your rhetoric that only about five frames of the 747 hitting the Pentagon, implying that they had been doctored with. They're security tapes, not TV broadcast quality production tapes.

He can't face the fact that we have become a nation of craven cowards who responded to the terrorism of 9/11 by curtailing our own liberties. After all, if we are so hot on personal freedom, how come we didn't pack the streets of Washington DC with calls to never pass the PATRIOT act? Or to repeal it? No, no! [-X It had to be a despicable government-sponsored conspiracy formulated by some bad people to sap our liberties — people that the US electorate elected to office.

Show me where I said it was a government-sponsored conspiracy.

You insinuated it. Who else could have rigged WTC 7 with explosives and not raise any official alarms but the US government? Who else could have delayed the official identification of the attackers until 48 hours after the fact but the US government? Who else could have held back NORAD from shooting down the planes but the US government?

You've raised all of these points before, you lying fuck, and while you never mentioned the government in all of that, the subtext was as clear as if you written it out explicitly. Don't you dare start backpedaling now.

He can't face the fact that he is completely unable to articulate how free fall times are indicative of controlled demolition...

Because for a building to free fall straight down as 7 WTC is seen to have done, the only known way for that to happen would be for ALL 83 of the columns to fail at exactly the same moment in time.

Which isn't what happened. The penthouse fell a good seven seconds before the north face was seen to fall. The building collapsed from the core out.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, why are you so afraid of considering the possibility that maybe IT IS A FUCKING DUCK!  And the only known way for 83 columns to fail simultaneously is controlled demolition.

Which it didn't do. Calling a dog a duck does not make it a duck, no matter how feverently you insist that it is.

The NIST model shows a sequential collapse.  The NIST lead investigator states in no uncertain terms that it WAS a sequential collapse.

Which doesn't imply that it was a controlled collapse, you dumb fuck. Nothing about the term "sequential collapse" implies that the collapse was controlled in any way, and also if all 83 columns were taken out at "exactly the same moment in time" as you claim, it wouldn't be called a "sequential collapse," but rather a "simultaneous collapse." You keep trying to make the connection, but it simply isn't happening.

...and cannot explain how the NIST and others, using only Newtonian mechanics, were able to simulate the collapse of WTC 7 as an uncontrolled collapse and matched all the observed data. No, no! [-X ONLY a controlled collapse can fall in free fall time because.... FIZZIKS! IT'S TRUE 'CUZ I SAY SO!

The NIST model stops at the point where the collapse begins.  It never gets to the freefall part.

Once the bottom buckled, clearly visible in the simulation, all significant support from the bottom was lost, explaining neatly why there was any period of freefall.

Not to mention, the computer generated animation looks nothing at all like the observed collapse.

It replicates the major features of collapse initiation, like the fact that the penthouse collapsed well before the rest of the outside. It's also sequential collapse, where the region of collapse rips through the building core in a progressive wave before the facade collapses, just as the NIST claimed. This is pretty much as close as you'll ever get in an sort of disaster simulation given the fact that it was put together after the fact as any other accident. Were it not for the fact that it was connected to 9/11, those discrepancies would not have even raised a comment.

Furthermore, NIST has never released the data they used to create the model so it can not be verified.

The excuse is that if terrorists got hold of their data, they (terrorists) would be able to use it to bring down more buildings.

Wow. The NIST keeps secrets for the most bullshit reasons? Horrors.

Obviously, if architects had access to the data they would be able to close the security hole and design safer buildings, but that's beside the point.

What "security hole"? That an even taller building fell on top of it, which broke the water mains and set it on fire that couldn't be controlled for several hours because of said lack of water? I would think that ANY civilian building would be fucked in that situation. The fact that it held up for hours instead of collapsing within minutes speaks to how good WTC 7's structure was. It stayed up for long enough for almost everyone to make it out.

You can believe NIST if you want to, but it reeks of bullshit in my opinion.

I don't think that bullshit smell is coming from the place you think it's coming from, boyo.

It seems you are trying to transpose all of your own beliefs and hangups onto me.  Speak for your fucking self.

Go back under your bed to cry some more.

[Hakurei Reimu]

Or did 19 asshats fly a fucking plane into the building and did the resulting fire cause the upper third of the building to collapse onto the rest of the building thereby causing the rest of the structural supports of the building to fall?

Did I just hear you say MoFo is wrong because the facts say I am wrong?  Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are full of shit.  TWO planes hit TWO buildings in Manhattan.  There was no third plane hitting ANY building ANYWHERE in New York.  Furthermore, the upper third of the building did NOT collapse onto the rest of the building.  All you have to do is watch the fucking video I linked to in my OP and you will see it coming straight down as though a giant sinkhole opened beneath it.

Want some more straw for your strawman, Farmer AMF? No one here has ever claimed that a plane hit WTC 7. The falling debris from WTC 1 & 2 are what knocked out WTC 7.

[Sargon The Grape]

Or did 19 asshats fly a fucking plane into the building and did the resulting fire cause the upper third of the building to collapse onto the rest of the building thereby causing the rest of the structural supports of the building to fall?

Did I just hear you say MoFo is wrong because the facts say I am wrong?  Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are full of shit.  TWO planes hit TWO buildings in Manhattan.  There was no third plane hitting ANY building ANYWHERE in New York.  Furthermore, the upper third of the building did NOT collapse onto the rest of the building.  All you have to do is watch the fucking video I linked to in my OP and you will see it coming straight down as though a giant sinkhole opened beneath it.

Want some more straw for your strawman, Farmer AMF? No one here has ever claimed that a plane hit WTC 7. The falling debris from WTC 1 & 2 are what knocked out WTC 7.

It's no use, Reimu, I covered this all the way back on page 2, and he took it to mean I believed Godzilla was responsible for the attack.

[the_antithesis]

All it really does is obscure the central issue.

And the central issue is that you're a twat.

Piss off, chubby.

[AtheistMoFo]

@The Skeletal Atheist

You're a fucking retard.

Is it really that difficult for you to understand that the penthouse falling is a sign that the internal structure of the building is essentially gone? You know, the same internal structure that was holding the penthouse up? That went, then the exterior facade went, but that's apparently too goddamn hard for you to understand.

Calling someone a retard does not make that person's theory wrong and your own theory right, but if you think it helps your case, go right ahead.

Fact 1: flames coming out of windows is a sign of something really really wrong going on inside.  So if we are measuring the time from when signs appear that serious shit started happening inside the building, we must start the clock when we see the first flames and smoke.  But the building is not falling yet, only manifesting signs that something fucked up is happening.

Fact 2: from the start of the penthouse falling until it goes out of sight, 5.4 seconds, or 40% slower than free fall.  I have never argued to the contrary.  Why can't you understand I agree on that point.  But the penthouse is not the main structure of the building itself.

Fact 3: the roof itself and all visible external structure other than the penthouse disappears in 3.9 seconds -- id est, FREE-FUCKING-FALL.

So if you are measuring the time from when signs of damage appear until the building goes out of sight, you have to start the clock several hours earlier.

If you start the clock when the penthouse collapses until it goes out of sight, it is 5.4 seconds, which is slower than freefall.

If you start the clock when the roof and main structure of the building begins to fall, it disappears in 3.9 seconds.  Freefall.  That is the only claim I have ever made.  I don't see what is so difficult to understand about that.



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@Moralnihilist

how did 83 columns fail simultaneously across 8 stories? I've offered my theory, now let's hear yours.

I have several times asshat learn to fucking read dipshit.

Must have missed that post due to all the background noise.  What page is it on?  I don't remember you posting anything about how the columns failed simultaneously.

I lost plenty of friends and fucking family that day

In which case there is every reason for wanting to know who ALL of the criminals are, not just the dead ones.  Why don't you care?

How does one rig up a building for a controlled demolition without 27 fully trained and highly qualified demolitions experts in the same building noticing ANYTHING?

Pretty much the same way Arab passengers board four airplanes with boxcutters in their possession without highly qualified security experts noticing anything, but on a larger scale.

to rig a building for demolition undetected while said building is full of EOD's and their equipment is fucking impossible

And if you ask airport security officers, they will tell you it impossible to board a plane carrying weapons.  Do you believe them?


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@josephpalazzo

Just imagine you walking on a fragile pane of glass. A rock is thrown, and the glass breaks - you, the rock and all the pieces of glass will now fall freely under gravity.

Poor analogy.  Structural steel and concrete are somewhat more robust than a fragile pane of glass.

All of that concrete weighed thousands of tons. So do the calculation. Once that hits the ground, it has so much energy, it can pulverize just about anything. So how did that come about? Once the steel beams were melt by the high temperature, then the floor had to collapse, and what you get is everything is under free fall.

But how does all the debris get to the gound where it can pulverize just about anything without destroying all the underlying support beams and concrete in the process?  And how did the steel beams melt?  Especially, as the fires were mainly on the east side of the building, how did the steel beams on the west side melt simultaneously?  How did the fires get so hot as to melt steel in the first place?  Other anti-truthers taking part in this thread have insisted there was no molten steel.  Care to take it up with them?

That they were explosives placed prior to the attack is just bogus, as that kind of action would require extensive planning, involving hundreds of people who, for the rest of their entire lives, would have to keep quiet about it, never revealing anything to their loved ones, spouses, family, friends. Just think about it, your wild theory is just not believable.

Bogus because you don't want to believe it?  Or bogus because it is beyond the capabilities of Saudi Arabian jihadists?

The stealth fighter was flying for at least 20 years before its existence became known to the public.  And even then, it only became known because the military decided it was time to show off to the public.  Manhattan Project was carried out in complete secrecy and only became known after the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  The attack on the USS Liberty by the israeli military was kept under wraps for 30 years.  Why is it not believable that secrets could be kept in this case?  Manhattan Project employed over 130,000 people.  I have no idea how many people were involved in the stealth fighter project, nor do I know how many sailors were aboard the Liberty when it was attacked, but the WTC 7 demolition team would come nowhere near employing the number of people in any of those.  What makes it so unbelievable?


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@Hakurei Reimu

Show me where I said anything about a cruise missile.

You insinuated it with your rhetoric that only about five frames of the 747 hitting the Pentagon, implying that they had been doctored with. They're security tapes, not TV broadcast quality production tapes.

Pointing out that there was collusion to hide evidence is hardly insinuating anything about a cruise missile nor is it an accusation of anyone tampering with evidence.  You've been watching too many cartoons.

You insinuated it. Who else could have rigged WTC 7 with explosives and not raise any official alarms but the US government?

Wow.  You've really got to take a vacation from your cartoon world.  As for your "Who else?" question, that is exactly what we (truthers) want to know.  What surprises us is that there are so many people who would rather not know.

Who else could have delayed the official identification of the attackers until 48 hours after the fact but the US government? Who else could have held back NORAD from shooting down the planes but the US government?

Who else?  Who else?  Tell you what.  How about we call for an INVESTIGATION and find out who else.

You've raised all of these points before, you lying fuck, and while you never mentioned the government in all of that, the subtext was as clear as if you written it out explicitly. Don't you dare start backpedaling now.

Who is backpedaling?  I have consistently said that a number of people holding high positions in finance/industry, government, and military must have been a part of the conspiracy.  How the fuck do you construe that as the same thing as government-sponsored conspiracy any more than one two Olympic athletes taking steroids is an Olympic drug cartel conspiracy.  If you can't understand that, you'd better go back to watching cartoons and leave all the serious talk to the adults.

On second thought, don't bother trying to understand.  Just go back to your cartoons.

[Moralnihilist]

Im a drooling retard who lacks the ability to think clearly. Also I enjoy jerking off in my mothers panties. Quite often while she watches and tells me what a good boy I am. Even though my entire bullshit story has been disproven with one simple question, I'll just go ahead and compare an overrated rent-a-cop to highly trained, combat tested, military grade explosive experts. When it comes to the level of ease it would be to sneak over 900lbs of high grade explosive, several miles of primer cord, hundreds of explosive links into a building where those badasses work, it surely must be the same level of difficulty(according to my small brain, which resides in my astonishingly small penis) as sneaking a box cutter onto a plane. But seeing as how nobody believes that only I and several other looser retards believe this bullshit I will just go ahead and take the christard approach and just repeat my bullshit over and over again until I eventually get my ass banned for being to stupid to live, maybe then my mommy will finally let me actually get what is in her panties.

FIFY

jerkoff

[AtheistMoFo]

@Hakurei Reimu

Want some more straw for your strawman, Farmer AMF? No one here has ever claimed that a plane hit WTC 7. The falling debris from WTC 1 & 2 are what knocked out WTC 7.

Check out page 36:

Or did 19 asshats fly a fucking plane into the building and did the resulting fire cause the upper third of the building to collapse onto the rest of the building thereby causing the rest of the structural supports of the building to fall?

So no one here has ever claimed that a third plane hit WTC 7?  I will let you and Moralnihilist sort this out between yourselves, with or without gloves.  Not only does he claim a plane hit 7 WTC, he also claims the upper third of the building fell onto the rest of the building.

PS: Moralnihilist was there on that day, and is one very angry dude.  So watch your ass.  You have been warned.

[AtheistMoFo]

I am one very fucking clever forger.  I forged MoFo's signature on a post saying

Im a drooling retard who lacks the ability to think clearly. Also I enjoy jerking off in my mothers panties. Quite often while she watches and tells me what a good boy I am. Even though my entire bullshit story has been disproven with one simple question, I'll just go ahead and compare an overrated rent-a-cop to highly trained, combat tested, military grade explosive experts. When it comes to the level of ease it would be to sneak over 900lbs of high grade explosive, several miles of primer cord, hundreds of explosive links into a building where those badasses work, it surely must be the same level of difficulty(according to my small brain, which resides in my astonishingly small penis) as sneaking a box cutter onto a plane. But seeing as how nobody believes that only I and several other looser retards believe this bullshit I will just go ahead and take the christard approach and just repeat my bullshit over and over again until I eventually get my ass banned for being to stupid to live, maybe then my mommy will finally let me actually get what is in her panties.

but all along it was ME, Moralnihilist, who wrote that crap in MoFo's name.  Heh, heh, heh.  How fucking clever am I!  Heh, heh, heh.  And by now, everyone believes MoFo wrote that bullshit.  Heh, heh, heh.

How fucking old are you, Moralnihilist?  I don't mean your chronological age, but your intellectual age.



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[AtheistMoFo]

All it really does is obscure the central issue.

And the central issue is that you're a twat.

Piss off, chubby.

Actually, I read the forum rules before I signed up.  I did not see any rule about chubby twats being ineligible to join.  And if you have a problem with chubby twats, that is your personal problem.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the controlled demolition of 7 WTC on September 11, 2001.  

Fucking grow up.  Debate the issue.  Prove me wrong if you can.  So far, many have CLAIMED to prove me wrong with a lot of childish rhetoric.  But in the end, it is only childish rhetoric.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

All it really does is obscure the central issue.

And the central issue is that you're a twat.

Piss off, chubby.

Actually, I read the forum rules before I signed up.  I did not see any rule about chubby twats being ineligible to join.  And if you have a problem with chubby twats, that is your personal problem.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the controlled demolition of 7 WTC on September 11, 2001.  

Fucking grow up.  Debate the issue.  Prove me wrong if you can.  So far, many have CLAIMED to prove me wrong with a lot of childish rhetoric.  But in the end, it is only childish rhetoric.

:rollin: So you admit you're a chubby twat.

[Icarus]

All it really does is obscure the central issue.

And the central issue is that you're a twat.

Piss off, chubby.

Actually, I read the forum rules before I signed up.  I did not see any rule about chubby twats being ineligible to join.  And if you have a problem with chubby twats, that is your personal problem.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with the controlled demolition of 7 WTC on September 11, 2001.  

Fucking grow up.  Debate the issue.  Prove me wrong if you can.  So far, many have CLAIMED to prove me wrong with a lot of childish rhetoric.  But in the end, it is only childish rhetoric.

You can respond to this if you want, posted it a while back. Lies and deception don't make you right  

"I took a look at the scientists for 911 truth, just to check out which scientists they were quoting. Looking through some of the people they quoted and looking them up I noticed a trend. The trend was that none of them were scientists. I have discovered another conspiracy: Why would people set up a website called "Scientists for 9/11 Truth" and quote only non-scientists? Clearly someone very high up wants us to believe that the 9/11 conspiracy is true.  "

[Moralnihilist]

I am one very badass dude with a HUGE penis

Im a drooling retard who lacks the ability to think clearly. Also I enjoy jerking off in my mothers panties. Quite often while she watches and tells me what a good boy I am. Even though my entire bullshit story has been disproven with one simple question, I'll just go ahead and compare an overrated rent-a-cop to highly trained, combat tested, military grade explosive experts. When it comes to the level of ease it would be to sneak over 900lbs of high grade explosive, several miles of primer cord, hundreds of explosive links into a building where those badasses work, it surely must be the same level of difficulty(according to my small brain, which resides in my astonishingly small penis) as sneaking a box cutter onto a plane. But seeing as how nobody believes that only I and several other looser retards believe this bullshit I will just go ahead and take the christard approach and just repeat my bullshit over and over again until I eventually get my ass banned for being to stupid to live, maybe then my mommy will finally let me actually get what is in her panties.

but all along it was ME, Moralnihilist, who was getting in this whiny little bitches mothers ass. Thats right I fucked this dudes mom right in her ass.

Moralnihilist, why can't my penis be big like yours?  I didn't mean to look whilst you were pounding my mom in her ass that I so wish I could get in, but she keeps telling me that my dick is so abysmally small that it won't reach past her butt cheeks.

Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

[Sargon The Grape]

PS: Moralnihilist was there on that day, and is one very angry dude.  So watch your ass.  You have been warned.

Yeah, he saw Godzilla and the Death Star tag-teaming the place. I have pictures to prove it. :)