Is Freefall Proof of Controlled Demolition?

[Hakurei Reimu]

I think what AMF is afraid of. He's afraid that the US really is broken in a fundamental way.

To him, his conspiracy theory is actually comforting, because he thinks that if the right people were in charge, everything would come up roses again. Fortress USA would be impregnable, with liberty and justice for all.

He can't face the fact that we have become a nation of craven cowards who responded to the terrorism of 9/11 by curtailing our own liberties. After all, if we are so hot on personal freedom, how come we didn't pack the streets of Washington DC with calls to never pass the PATRIOT act? Or to repeal it? No, no!  [-X  It had to be a despicable government-sponsored conspiracy formulated by some bad people to sap our liberties — people that the US electorate elected to office.

He can't face the fact that US airport security had been full of holes for decades prior to 9/11, manned by overworked, underappreciated slobs rubberstamping everything that didn't look like a bomb. No, no!  [-X  They had to have been singled out and let aboard by competent personnel.

He can't face the fact that a 747 is capable of some rather extreme maneuvers, especially if you don't expect to be landing it intact. No, no!  [-X  Those kind of maneuvers are IMPOSSIBURU for someone unable to land! (And who didn't expect to.)

He can't face the fact that what hit the pentagon was a 747, given the fact that they found the parts of that exact plane that was missing at the crash site. No, no!  [-X  It had to be a cruise missile.

He can't face the fact that the CIA and the FBI were engaged in jurisdictional turf-wars that prevented them from talking to each other, and didn't know to talk to each other until after the fact, whereupon they quickly figured out who did it. No, no!  [-X  They can communicate perfectly! They just chose not to act or do anything until afterward!

He can't face the fact that he is completely unable to articulate how free fall times are indicative of controlled demolition, and cannot explain how the NIST and others, using only Newtonian mechanics, were able to simulate the collapse of WTC 7 as an uncontrolled collapse and matched all the observed data. No, no!  [-X  ONLY a controlled collapse can fall in free fall time because.... FIZZIKS! IT'S TRUE 'CUZ I SAY SO!

He can't face the fact that we are all swept along for the ride by the force of history, the fact that our institutions have interactions and behavior that renders them almost as tempermental beasts in their own right, and that homeland security was all but nonexistent before and a bad joke even now. No, no!  [-X  Fortress 'Murica is impregnable if it really wants to be!

No, Emperor AthistMoFo has no clothes here. Your fear that America was put together in a slipshod fashion with naught but short-term and short-sighted goals governing its assembly is quite palpable. Go slink away back under your bed and have a good cry.

[Sargon The Grape]

I stand corrected once again: My fellow Touhoufag has won the thread. =D>

[Moralnihilist]

What truly amazes me is the fact that AMF and other 9/11 "truthers" seem to think that it would be easier to believe that there is some vast governmental conspiracy or some secret plot by foreign governments to sneak in high grade explosives into a BUSY office building in one of the busiest cities in the world(remember folks New York is the city that never sleeps) not only did they manage to sneak in the explosives into the office building(also a tourist destination)...

Round and round we go.  Another "government conspiracy" denier crashes the party.

Although government conspiracy could be considered a related topic, it is not really the point here.  The central issue is whether or not 7 WTC came down due to controlled demolition (my hypothesis and minority opinion) or whether it came down due to normal office fires (NIST's hypothesis, majority opinion), or if there was some other reason (several alternative theories have been mentioned).  So the big question is whether or not freefall is possible when there is structural material posing resistance.  My contention is that any falling object will fall more slowly than the rate of gravity when there is structural material offering resistance.  Pysicist Josephpalazzo PhD. and many others here insist that a falling object can accelerate at the rate of gravity even when it is falling through the path of greatest resistance.  And further, that is exactly what happened on September 11, 2001.

As a subset of the above argument, we are also discussing (I use the term "discuss" quite loosely) whether or not only muslim terrorists could have been so egregious as to kill thousands of people or whether jew, christian, other theist and (possibly) atheist terrorists might have also been among the scoundrels who caused the carnage.  The majority opinion seems to be that although jews, christians, and other theists sometimes do batshit crazy stuff, and jews especailly have a track record of doing batshit crazy stuff, only batshit crazy muslims are capable of anything of this magnitude.  The minority opinion is that you do not necessarily have to be muslim to be so barbarous.

If you want to debate whether or not there was a government conspiracy, why not take your discussion elsewhere?  All it really does is obscure the central issue.

And the thing that you seem to overlook is I WAS AN EOD THERE FOR 3 MONTHS PRIOR TO THAT DAY AND I WAS THERE THAT DAY AS WELL ASSHAT your bullshit physicist was not there nor was he in any position to do anything but yank his fucking crank and watch the video and make an educated guess on what happened, and I got bad news for you junior. He is far from being right about a controlled demolition.
 A controlled demolition pulls a building at an angle not flat because the physical demands of a controlled demolition makes it a guarantee that pulling one corner out of the building WILL cause the entire building to collapse, trying to pull a building flat (as wtc building 7 fell) is virtually impossible to guarantee a successful pull because the buildings support structure MAY catch the building and prevent it from falling.
 Your PhD that you keep trotting out is fucking wrong, he is a physicist not an EOD, he has not the slightest clue on how to bring a building down, he does not know the first thing about explosive detonations(aside from the math I assume).

If you can answer me this retard:
How does one rig up a building for a controlled demolition without 27 fully trained and highly qualified demolitions experts in the same building noticing ANYTHING? Your professor can't answer that because it FUCKING CANT BE NONE. It was our job to locate explosives, we were trained to detect explosives, we had the latest and greatest of explosive detecting devices, we were there 24/7, there is no way in fucking hell that someone rigged a building to collapse without one of us noticing. YOUR "THEORY" FAILS RIGHT THERE MORON. Get over it you are wrong because the facts say you are fucking wrong.

All the mental masturbation in the world does not change the fact that there was 27 of the best EOD's in the world in that building, and any one of them would have noticed that building being rigged for demolition. A retardedly drunk EOD could look and see a building being rigged for demolition, an EOD student could look and see a building rigged for demolition, YOUR RETARDED ASS COULD HAVE SEEN THE BUILDING RIGGED FOR DEMOLITION WITH ALL THE FUCKING EQUIPMENT THAT WAS IN THAT OFFICE.


Or did 19 asshats fly a fucking plane into the building and did the resulting fire cause the upper third of the building to collapse onto the rest of the building thereby causing the rest of the structural supports of the building to fall?

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Once again AtheistMoFo: was he incompetent at his job or was he part of the conspiracy? Or are you going to suggest that there is a type of explosive that expert EODs can't you detect?

The ball is in your court, please don't try to eat it.

[Johan]

And the thing that you seem to overlook is I WAS AN EOD THERE FOR 3 MONTHS PRIOR TO THAT DAY AND I WAS THERE THAT DAY AS WELL ASSHAT your bullshit physicist was not there nor was he in any position to do anything but yank his fucking crank and watch the video and make an educated guess on what happened, and I got bad news for you junior. He is far from being right about a controlled demolition.
 A controlled demolition pulls a building at an angle not flat because the physical demands of a controlled demolition makes it a guarantee that pulling one corner out of the building WILL cause the entire building to collapse, trying to pull a building flat (as wtc building 7 fell) is virtually impossible to guarantee a successful pull because the buildings support structure MAY catch the building and prevent it from falling.
 Your PhD that you keep trotting out is fucking wrong, he is a physicist not an EOD, he has not the slightest clue on how to bring a building down, he does not know the first thing about explosive detonations(aside from the math I assume).

If you can answer me this retard:
How does one rig up a building for a controlled demolition without 27 fully trained and highly qualified demolitions experts in the same building noticing ANYTHING? Your professor can't answer that because it FUCKING CANT BE NONE. It was our job to locate explosives, we were trained to detect explosives, we had the latest and greatest of explosive detecting devices, we were there 24/7, there is no way in fucking hell that someone rigged a building to collapse without one of us noticing. YOUR "THEORY" FAILS RIGHT THERE MORON. Get over it you are wrong because the facts say you are fucking wrong.

All the mental masturbation in the world does not change the fact that there was 27 of the best EOD's in the world in that building, and any one of them would have noticed that building being rigged for demolition. A retardedly drunk EOD could look and see a building being rigged for demolition, an EOD student could look and see a building rigged for demolition, YOUR RETARDED ASS COULD HAVE SEEN THE BUILDING RIGGED FOR DEMOLITION WITH ALL THE FUCKING EQUIPMENT THAT WAS IN THAT OFFICE.


Or did 19 asshats fly a fucking plane into the building and did the resulting fire cause the upper third of the building to collapse onto the rest of the building thereby causing the rest of the structural supports of the building to fall?

[stromboli]

[AtheistMoFo]

@The Skeletal Atheist

Once again the reason the clock started when the penthouse began to fall is that the penthouse falling is an indication that there is something very fucking wrong with the internal structure of the building.

Why not start the clock when the first piece of debris hit the building?  That's when something very fucking wrong with the internal structure of the building all started, right?  Or why not start the clock when flames started shooting out of the windows, isn't that an indication that something very fucking wrong is going on inside?

We are talking about the roof of the building coming down at free fall.  Obviously, any normal person would start the clock when the roof begins to move downward.  Not when internal damage begins, otherwise you would have to start the clock when the first debris hit the building.  Or at least when flames came shooting out the windows.

You do not start the clock on an Olypic swimmer when s/he takes his/her position on the starting line, you start the clock when "go" cue is sounded and the swimmer begins to move.  Common sense.


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@Hakurei Reimu

He can't face the fact that what hit the pentagon was a 747, given the fact that they found the parts of that exact plane that was missing at the crash site. No, no! [-X It had to be a cruise missile.

Show me where I said anything about a cruise missile.

He can't face the fact that we have become a nation of craven cowards who responded to the terrorism of 9/11 by curtailing our own liberties. After all, if we are so hot on personal freedom, how come we didn't pack the streets of Washington DC with calls to never pass the PATRIOT act? Or to repeal it? No, no! [-X It had to be a despicable government-sponsored conspiracy formulated by some bad people to sap our liberties — people that the US electorate elected to office.

Show me where I said it was a government-sponsored conspiracy.  If you had read anything I wrote you would know that I have said many times I do not believe there was a government conspiracy.  And tell me why you are so proud of being a craven coward?  Are you suggesting a change to the lyrics from "land of the free and home of the brave" to something more like "land of the enslaved and home of the cowards"?  You can propose it, and we shall see how many followers you have.

He can't face the fact that he is completely unable to articulate how free fall times are indicative of controlled demolition...

Because for a building to free fall straight down as 7 WTC is seen to have done, the only known way for that to happen would be for ALL 83 of the columns to fail at exactly the same moment in time.  If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, why are you so afraid of considering the possibility that maybe IT IS A FUCKING DUCK!  And the only known way for 83 columns to fail simultaneously is controlled demolition.  The NIST model shows a sequential collapse.  The NIST lead investigator states in no uncertain terms that it WAS a sequential collapse.

...and cannot explain how the NIST and others, using only Newtonian mechanics, were able to simulate the collapse of WTC 7 as an uncontrolled collapse and matched all the observed data. No, no! [-X ONLY a controlled collapse can fall in free fall time because.... FIZZIKS! IT'S TRUE 'CUZ I SAY SO!

The NIST model stops at the point where the collapse begins.  It never gets to the freefall part.  Not to mention, the computer generated animation looks nothing at all like the observed collapse.  Furthermore, NIST has never released the data they used to create the model so it can not be verified.

The excuse is that if terrorists got hold of their data, they (terrorists) would be able to use it to bring down more buildings.  Obviously, if architects had access to the data they would be able to close the security hole and design safer buildings, but that's beside the point.  You can believe NIST if you want to, but it reeks of bullshit in my opinion.

It seems you are trying to transpose all of your own beliefs and hangups onto me.  Speak for your fucking self.


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@josephpalazzo

The dude in question has a hard time to deal with a body falling under gravity will pick up kinetic energy and can really break stuff along the way. Even a 5 year old can understand that. Worse, according to that dude, I've just invented a new theory. Go figure.

No, no, no.  "The dude" does believe a body falling under gravity can pick up kinetic energy as it falls and really break stuff along the way, that is true.  But a body can not pick up kinetic energy falling at the rate of gravity and still be able to really break stuff along the way.  It can not do both.  You can not have your cake and eat it too.  You can either accelerate at the rate of gravity OR you can break stuff along the way, not both.  I'm surprised you have difficulty comprehending this simple concept, especially considering your educational background.  Easy to see how this concept may be too difficult for some of these other clowns, but you ought to know better.

[aitm]

IMPOSSIBURU

 :rollin:

okay okay I'm a racist but goddamn I laughed...

[AtheistMoFo]

And the thing that you seem to overlook is I WAS AN EOD THERE FOR 3 MONTHS PRIOR TO THAT DAY AND I WAS THERE THAT DAY AS WELL ASSHAT ... It was our job to locate explosives, we were trained to detect explosives, we had the latest and greatest of explosive detecting devices, we were there 24/7

Cool.  That explains your motive for promoting the OCT.

there is no way in fucking hell that someone rigged a building to collapse without one of us noticing. YOUR "THEORY" FAILS RIGHT THERE MORON. Get over it you are wrong because the facts say you are fucking wrong.

Great!  Another new theory.  I love new theories!  Tell us, in YOUR theory, how did 83 columns fail simultaneously across 8 stories?  I've offered my theory, now let's hear yours.

Or did 19 asshats fly a fucking plane into the building and did the resulting fire cause the upper third of the building to collapse onto the rest of the building thereby causing the rest of the structural supports of the building to fall?

Did I just hear you say MoFo is wrong because the facts say I am wrong?  Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are full of shit.  TWO planes hit TWO buildings in Manhattan.  There was no third plane hitting ANY building ANYWHERE in New York.  Furthermore, the upper third of the building did NOT collapse onto the rest of the building.  All you have to do is watch the fucking video I linked to in my OP and you will see it coming straight down as though a giant sinkhole opened beneath it.

If you can't even get your fucking facts straight, why should anyone believe you would have noticed terrorists planting explosives?  Sorry dude.  Your theory is as full of shit as the Godzilla theory.  Now get your facts straight, or kindly fuck off.  Thank you in advance for fucking off.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

@The Skeletal Atheist

Once again the reason the clock started when the penthouse began to fall is that the penthouse falling is an indication that there is something very fucking wrong with the internal structure of the building.

Why not start the clock when the first piece of debris hit the building?  That's when something very fucking wrong with the internal structure of the building all started, right?  Or why not start the clock when flames started shooting out of the windows, isn't that an indication that something very fucking wrong is going on inside?

We are talking about the roof of the building coming down at free fall.  Obviously, any normal person would start the clock when the roof begins to move downward.  Not when internal damage begins, otherwise you would have to start the clock when the first debris hit the building.  Or at least when flames came shooting out the windows.


You do not start the clock on an Olypic swimmer when s/he takes his/her position on the starting line, you start the clock when "go" cue is sounded and the swimmer begins to move. Common sense.

You're a fucking retard.

Is it really that difficult for you to understand that the penthouse falling is a sign that the internal structure of the building is essentially gone? You know, the same internal structure that was holding the penthouse up? That went, then the exterior facade went, but that's apparently too goddamn hard for you to understand.

Get back to fingerpainting you fucking tard. Or better yet, follow these instructions:



And fill in the blanks.

[aitm]

You're a fucking retard.

bad date?

[stromboli]

All of your theories provide no evidence. All of them are not anything more than conspiracy opinions, and science, people experienced in building destruction and combustion, and a fucking highly qualified eyewitness do not make a difference?

Like I said in my very first post, look at videos of how buildings are brought down. They require major preparation. A huge amount of deconstructing, cutting into pillars, stringing literal miles of control wires, connectors, primacord and everything else. It would require TRUCKLOADS OF EQUIPMENT AND DOZENS OF MEN. You would have to remove a huge amount of fascia and outer construction to even reach the support pillars and it would require a very specific knowledge of the building and of demolition to achieve what you claim. This would have taken months and it would have required LITERAL TRUCKLOADS OF EQUIPMENT AND CREWS OF MEN TO ACCOMPLISH. AND NOBODY NOTICED?  

You are officially a fucking idiot.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

You're a fucking retard.

bad date?

Haha, nah. Popping in from time to time to check on the general insanity here.

[stromboli]

Haha, nah. Popping in from time to time to check on the general insanity here.

Yeah, we are on a roll with this one.

[Moralnihilist]

And the thing that you seem to overlook is I WAS AN EOD THERE FOR 3 MONTHS PRIOR TO THAT DAY AND I WAS THERE THAT DAY AS WELL ASSHAT ... It was our job to locate explosives, we were trained to detect explosives, we had the latest and greatest of explosive detecting devices, we were there 24/7

Cool.  That explains your motive for promoting the OCT.

Really... You want to go there? To this I simply say go fuck yourself with a chainsaw.

there is no way in fucking hell that someone rigged a building to collapse without one of us noticing. YOUR "THEORY" FAILS RIGHT THERE MORON. Get over it you are wrong because the facts say you are fucking wrong.

Great!  Another new theory.  I love new theories!  Tell us, in YOUR theory, how did 83 columns fail simultaneously across 8 stories?  I've offered my theory, now let's hear yours.

I have several times asshat learn to fucking read dipshit.

Or did 19 asshats fly a fucking plane into the building and did the resulting fire cause the upper third of the building to collapse onto the rest of the building thereby causing the rest of the structural supports of the building to fall?

Did I just hear you say MoFo is wrong because the facts say I am wrong?  Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are full of shit.  TWO planes hit TWO buildings in Manhattan.  There was no third plane hitting ANY building ANYWHERE in New York.  Furthermore, the upper third of the building did NOT collapse onto the rest of the building.  All you have to do is watch the fucking video I linked to in my OP and you will see it coming straight down as though a giant sinkhole opened beneath it.

If you can't even get your fucking facts straight, why should anyone believe you would have noticed terrorists planting explosives?  Sorry dude.  Your theory is as full of shit as the Godzilla theory.  Now get your facts straight, or kindly fuck off.  Thank you in advance for fucking off.

Ive watched every fucking video, I WAS THERE FOR FUCK SAKES! And when you learn to read maybe you could fucking tell me where I said that there were 3 fucking planes? And in terms to getting my facts straight, listen here junior I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY I WAS FUCKING THERE!!! You weren't you were sitting off somewhere else scratching your ass. I lost plenty of friends and fucking family that day and for a shithead like you to blatantly accuse me of being in cahoots with your bullshit "theory", be glad I don't know where you live or believe me I would beat the stupid out of you fuckstain. Now then why don't you join your mother and take a long fuck off the end of my dick.


PS:
GO FUCK YOURSELF


Oh and by the way since your whole "theory" relies on there being a controlled demolition of the building, then ANSWER MY FUCKING QUESTION.

How does one rig up a building for a controlled demolition without 27 fully trained and highly qualified demolitions experts in the same building noticing ANYTHING?

Until you can answer this one simple question your "theory" falls flat on its fucking face. That is a fact that destroys your "theory". Until you can deal with the FACT that that building was full 24/7 with some of the best EOD's and all the latest and greatest explosive detecting equipment in the world you have no leg to stand on. No physicist, no architect, no amount of mental masturbation can overcome the simple fact that to rig a building for demolition undetected while said building is full of EOD's and their equipment is fucking impossible. There is the fact that lays your bullshit "theory" to rest.